Deism appears to be true and Prophets and Messengers not, why?

[shunyadragon]

It's like everyone is allowed an opinion except God. Go figure, I was this irrational for five years!

Obviously true, but not a cherent response

 

[Deidre]

See this thread: Absolute proof against the existence of God, as described in the Abrahamic religions

It is as I said, it puts Theism on the defensive. And I emphasize, what's the point of guidance, if doesn't guide? Well, it's to guide. The real question is why hasn't God's guidance worked. And I am convinced Quran warnings and it already explained the results of if it's warnings would not be heeded and the bad prophecies meant to be avoided have come to pass and yet some to remain (we can hopefully change those around).

But not all humans are rational and so if the world is not perfect, they disbelieve in God.

In the Bible, it’s written that Jesus told His followers to be prepared to defend their faith, to defend what brings them hope. It’s not comfortable to be on the defensive, but as long as one defends their faith in kindness and love, it shouldn’t be something theists feel bad about.

 

[shunyadragon]

See this thread: Absolute proof against the existence of God, as described in the Abrahamic religions.

Actually I support the conclusions, but absolute Truth is beyond human comprehension. The ancient Abrahamic religions only have context in the original cultures and times of their scriptures. This would be a contradiction of the existence of God as a universal 'Source.' Deism could not offer an alternative. The only viable alternatives is 'no God,' or a more universal God that the nature of our physical existence reflects Creation.

But not all humans are rational and so if the world is not perfect, they disbelieve in God.

True, but this does not lead to any conclusions beyond the obvious bold.

 

[Link]

In the Bible, it’s written that Jesus told His followers to be prepared to defend their faith, to defend what brings them hope. It’s not comfortable to be on the defensive, but as long as one defends their faith in kindness and love, it shouldn’t be something theists feel bad about.

True. You are full of wisdom. I been feeling guilty over something I should feel good about.

 

[Deidre]

True. You are full of wisdom. I been feeling guilty over something I should feel good about.

I’m just quoting God’s word so credit goes to Him. Lol I’m glad you start these threads because we are here to lift each other up

 

[Link]

The Quran split times in days of God and nights. Days of God is like when Moses' does miracles, Jesus' does miracles, then it begins to set, and when there is no light of God in form of a guide in the open, it's the dark night or begins to become darker and darker.

In these times, religion doesn't appear as strong and manifest as it did for example when Solomon ruled through sheer power from God.

I'm saying, nights have their purpose, but their purpose is to seek the day, and day is what is meant to be for humans. We are in unnatural state, in a state when miracles are not in the open. And for a period that has never been this long without them in the open.

 

[Link]

Actually I support the conclusions, but absolute Truth is beyond human comprehension. The ancient Abrahamic religions only have context in the original cultures and times of their scriptures. This would be a contradiction of the existence of God as a universal 'Source.' Deism could not offer an alternative. The only viable alternatives is 'no God,' or a more universal God that the nature of our physical existence reflects Creation.




True, but this does not lead to any conclusions beyond the obvious bold.

I don't know what you mean. His conclusion is we are too messed up, God wouldn't mess up this bad if he tried to guide us. Seems legit but it's over simplification. My thread was sort of a response to that.

 

[shunyadragon]

I’m just quoting God’s word so credit goes to Him. Lol I’m glad you start these threads because we are here to lift each other up

Which God's word there are many conflicting contradictory conflicting versions?

 

[Spirit of Light]

The Quran split times in days of God and nights. Days of God is like when Moses' does miracles, Jesus' does miracles, then it begins to set, and when there is no light of God in form of a guide in the open, it's the dark night or begins to become darker and darker.

In these times, religion doesn't appear as strong and manifest as it did for example when Solomon ruled through sheer power from God.

I'm saying, nights have their purpose, but their purpose is to seek the day, and day is what is meant to be for humans. We are in unnatural state, in a state when miracles are not in the open. And for a period that has never been this long without them in the open.

Do you realize that you found the teacher within you? Your guide is you self, the wisdom is your teacher

 

[Link]

Which God's word there are many conflicting contradictory conflicting versions?

Not here. Not this thread my friend. Not the place.

 

[Deidre]

Which God's word there are many conflicting contradictory conflicting versions?

For me, it’s the Gospel messages in the Bible. I follow Jesus’ teachings.

 

[Deidre]

Not here. Not this thread my friend. Not the place.

Lol I should’ve read this first.

 

[oldbadger]

Deism appears to be true and Prophets and Messengers not, why?

I don't understand how your Opening Post proves Deism, but to answer your Thread Title:-

God is everything, all force, anything and nothing. The lot.
There are 100 billion suns in this galaxy, and 100 billion + galaxies in this one Universe. There will be more universes.

And for us to think that God takes special interest in us, living on this tiny planet in this small solar system is not only very big headed of us, but quite crazy.

Ergo....... Deism.

 

[sun rise]

Prophets and Messengers would come with clear proofs.

The proof is in the human heart and no where else. Anyone might cite words. Anyone might juggle in a way that appears to be a contravention of human assumption. When the heart opens, the proof is revealed like a pearl in an oyster shell.

I think miracles happen everyday.

@Deidre , you reminded me of one of the songs I really like: Ordinary Miracle

It's not that unusual
When everything is beautiful.
It's just another ordinary miracle today.
The sky knows when its time to snow,

Don't need to teach a seed to grow.
It's just another ordinary miracle today.
Life is like a gift they say
Wrapped up for you everyday;
Open up and find a way
To give some of your own.

Isn't it remarkable?
Like every time a rain drop falls,
It's just another ordinary miracle today.

 

[Deidre]

I don't understand how your Opening Post proves Deism, but to answer your Thread Title:-

God is everything, all force, anything and nothing. The lot.
There are 100 billion suns in this galaxy, and 100 billion + galaxies in this one Universe. There will be more universes.

And for us to think that God takes special interest in us, living on this tiny planet in this small solar system is not only very big headed of us, but quite crazy.

Ergo....... Deism.

God takes interest in all of His creation, from what I've been reading about. I think we may be short sighted in believing that He only focuses on us, as humans. Or on earth, because it's our home. But, the Bible speaks of the heavens (which could have been their understanding of describing space and all that is unseen, but obviously there - the sky, stars, moon, sun, etc) So, the ancients believed that something other than ''us'' was out there, they just didn't know what, or why. As science explores more, we are identifying and discovering more. It's not really ''crazy'' though (to me) that we as little beings on this little planet, would believe God focuses on us. I believe He loves His creation, so He cares about us.

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't know what you mean. His conclusion is we are too messed up, God wouldn't mess up this bad if he tried to guide us. Seems legit but it's over simplification. My thread was sort of a response to that.

God' Creation is not Robotic and mechanical, and every thing is not directed by a hands on God as described in the Tanakh. God's existence and Creation is a natural diverse evolving human spiritual nature reflecting the natural physical existence, if God exists.

 

[oldbadger]

God takes interest in all of His creation, from what I've been reading about. I think we may be short sighted in believing that He only focuses on us, as humans. Or on earth, because it's our home. But, the Bible speaks of the heavens (which could have been their understanding of describing space and all that is unseen, but obviously there - the sky, stars, moon, sun, etc) So, the ancients believed that something other than ''us'' was out there, they just didn't know what, or why. As science explores more, we are identifying and discovering more. It's not really ''crazy'' though (to me) that we as little beings on this little planet, would believe God focuses on us. I believe He loves His creation, so He cares about us.

Hi Deidre....
I don't think that God is even aware of us.
But if I am wrong I would want to know how God could allow so many many outrages, mass killings, holocausts, starvations, genocides, etc........... no care there, really.

But as a Deist I just think that the Deity is unaware, I can live with that.

 

[Link]

I don't understand how your Opening Post proves Deism, but to answer your Thread Title:-

God is everything, all force, anything and nothing. The lot.
There are 100 billion suns in this galaxy, and 100 billion + galaxies in this one Universe. There will be more universes.

And for us to think that God takes special interest in us, living on this tiny planet in this small solar system is not only very big headed of us, but quite crazy.

Ergo....... Deism.

I was a Deist for five years. I made arguments for it, some of them stronger then others, but can refute them all.

 

[Link]

God' Creation is not Robotic and mechanical, and every thing is not directed by a hands on God as described in the Tanakh. God's existence and Creation is a natural diverse evolving human spiritual nature reflecting the natural physical existence, if God exists.

That's a factor. But also a factor is that Adam (peace be upon his holy repenting soul) wasn't meant to eat from the tree, he wasn't meant to look at the exalted ones and want their authority forever, nor disbelieve in their God for a moment and believe in the lies of his warned enemy (he got confused).

We are in a world that is not meant to be, error handling skills of God are awesome, but from going plan A we are now down to plan Z, the worst plan that God didn't want to happen, but at least he still plans for us.

I fear plan Z (the last resort) warnings of Quran are occurring, and this hard for me to just sit and watch by, and not be able to stop it. The dark prophecies of Quran came about that were meant to be avoided and what remains, is ever hard to avoid.

Khomeini (may God sanctify his secret) is a reason that some of the dark prophecies were avoided for now, and that there is hope to turn things around. But we'll see what happens. We all got to do our best.

 

[Deidre]

Hi Deidre....
I don't think that God is even aware of us.
But if I am wrong I would want to know how God could allow so many many outrages, mass killings, holocausts, starvations, genocides, etc........... no care there, really.

But as a Deist I just think that the Deity is unaware, I can live with that.

Hi! I know what you mean. I’ve struggled with how God allows calamities to happen. But, I think we are uncomfortable with the idea that a loving God knows that there are disasters, but also cares. In my estimation, He does care but how He handles disasters differs from maybe how I would like him to? Should he sweep in and rescue us from every bad decision we are about to make? Will that make Him God? If I never suffer, will that make Him God? What expectations do I have that if God “meets,” will then make Him God...to me? The God of the Bible at times, doesn’t please me. He offends me. He challenges my pride. But that becomes my problem, and if it keeps me from belief, that is my issue. If I only believe that God could be meaningful as long as my life becomes free of struggle, then God is little more than a conjuring of my imagination.

I think He is acutely aware, and He invites us to examine why that offends us.