Demonisation of Food

[Rival]

It seems nowadays that if you want to be healthy, you'd just end up eating vegetables.

Everything has been demonised because of sugar, fat and carbs. That literally leaves you with nothing but some meat and vegetables.

Smoothies are not bad because they have lots of sugar, in which case you are really just saying fruit is bad for you!

Meat is bad; dairy is terrible, apparently.

Everything foodwise is being demonised. There's no wonder Westerners don't know what to eat and how to balance their diets.

All foods contain nutrients to some degree. Bread, smoothies, milk and eggs are not unhealthy; they all have nutrients.

How can we stop this demonisation of food and be normal with it?

Stop Demonizing Food

I have to tell you, I’m a little sick of the sugar thing. And the carb thing, the wheat thing, the soda thing, the salt thing, and whatever thing we might be hearing about tomorrow. Now, I’m not recommending mass amounts of any of these foods, as they’re often consumed in the American diet. A ...

eatingdisorders.com

@Quintessence

 

[Revoltingest]

It seems nowadays that if you want to be healthy, you'd just end up eating vegetables.

Everything has been demonised because of sugar, fat and carbs. That literally leaves you with nothing but some meat and vegetables.

Smoothies are not bad because they have lots of sugar, in which case you are really just saying fruit is bad for you!

Meat is bad; dairy is terrible, apparently.

Everything food wise is being demonised. There's no wonder Westerners don't know what to eat and how to balance their diets.

All foods contain nutrients to some degree. Bread, smoothies, milk and eggs are not unhealthy; they all have nutrients.

How can we stop this demonisation of food and be normal with it?

Stop Demonizing Food

I have to tell you, I’m a little sick of the sugar thing. And the carb thing, the wheat thing, the soda thing, the salt thing, and whatever thing we might be hearing about tomorrow. Now, I’m not recommending mass amounts of any of these foods, as they’re often consumed in the American diet. A ...

eatingdisorders.com

@Quintessence

I like "bad" foods you mentioned.
But I try to eat wisely, so I limit them.

 

[HonestJoe]

It seems nowadays that if you want to be healthy, you'd just end up eating vegetables.

That isn't true though. The key question is where are you getting your information from exactly? People with a vested interest in discrediting other sources because they want you to buy their book?

How can we stop this demonisation of food and be normal with it?

I'm not convinced any food is routinely demonised (other than devilled eggs ). The root problem is how so much bad food is mass promoted (primarily by the companies selling them of course), and how what was "normal" food is, if not demonised, at least ignored or dismissed as too boring, difficult or slow.

The reason processed foods are often bad is because they contain too much salt, sugar and fat in a standard portion (let alone the portions people actually consume). Lazy criticism (and certainly defences) of them can come across as demonising those ingredients but it is really criticising the volumes of them in many products.

A healthy diet will include plenty of fresh vegetables (along with other things too), but to have that diet, people need to be able to get fresh vegetables and know how to prepare and cook them. And sadly, there isn't any money in that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It seems nowadays that if you want to be healthy, you'd just end up eating vegetables.

Everything has been demonised because of sugar, fat and carbs. That literally leaves you with nothing but some meat and vegetables.

Smoothies are not bad because they have lots of sugar, in which case you are really just saying fruit is bad for you!

Meat is bad; dairy is terrible, apparently.

Everything foodwise is being demonised. There's no wonder Westerners don't know what to eat and how to balance their diets.

All foods contain nutrients to some degree. Bread, smoothies, milk and eggs are not unhealthy; they all have nutrients.

How can we stop this demonisation of food and be normal with it?

Stop Demonizing Food

I have to tell you, I’m a little sick of the sugar thing. And the carb thing, the wheat thing, the soda thing, the salt thing, and whatever thing we might be hearing about tomorrow. Now, I’m not recommending mass amounts of any of these foods, as they’re often consumed in the American diet. A ...

eatingdisorders.com

@Quintessence

I like the way Dr. Steven Novella from the Skeptics Guide to the Universe puts it:

"Eat a variety of foods, not too much, mostly plants. Do this and you'll be fine. Any other advice is just fine tuning."

He also says - though I don't think this originated with him - "it isn't about the day; it's about the month." Long-term habits and overall trends are what matter. Don't stress about rare deviations from your plan (as long as they really are rare).

(Though he's always careful to preface this by saying that it may not be good advice if you're on a specific diet because of a diagnosed medical condition, and in those cases, always follow your doctor's advice)

 

[Rival]

That isn't true though. The key question is where are you getting your information from exactly? People with a vested interest in discrediting other sources because they want you to buy their book?

I'm not convinced any food is routinely demonised (other than devilled eggs ). The root problem is how so much bad food is mass promoted (primarily by the companies selling them of course), and how what was "normal" food is, if not demonised, at least ignored or dismissed as too boring, difficult or slow.

The reason processed foods are often bad is because they contain too much salt, sugar and fat in a standard portion (let alone the portions people actually consume). Lazy criticism (and certainly defences) of them can come across as demonising those ingredients but it is really criticising the volumes of them in many products.

A healthy diet will include plenty of fresh vegetables (along with other things too), but to have that diet, people need to be able to get fresh vegetables and know how to prepare and cook them. And sadly, there isn't any money in that.

This isn't quite what I meant.

There are folks out there telling you fruit is bad for you because apparently it's basically just sugar, which is just so off base it's nonsensical.

Or carbs, the food our forebears lived off for most of agricultural history.

The problem is laziness; people who sit down all day becoming fat from eating bread and dairy. I mean obviously that will happen, but it's not the food's fault.

 

[mangalavara]

Meat is bad; dairy is terrible, apparently.

I’m familiar with the ‘dairy bad’ mentality, and it is something that I’ve only seen on the internet. I read a YouTube comment once where an individual with that mentality commented that he or she thought that hardly anybody purchases milk these days. Meanwhile—offline—I see plenty of people purchase milk.

Everything foodwise is being demonised. There's no wonder Westerners don't know what to eat and how to balance their diets.

In my opinion, people who demonize food do so for the same reason that people tend to blame others for their problems: they don’t want to admit that their problems are due to their own habits and choices. It is easier to blame somebody or something else than amend what one does.

 

[Stevicus]

It seems nowadays that if you want to be healthy, you'd just end up eating vegetables.

Everything has been demonised because of sugar, fat and carbs. That literally leaves you with nothing but some meat and vegetables.

Smoothies are not bad because they have lots of sugar, in which case you are really just saying fruit is bad for you!

Meat is bad; dairy is terrible, apparently.

Everything foodwise is being demonised. There's no wonder Westerners don't know what to eat and how to balance their diets.

All foods contain nutrients to some degree. Bread, smoothies, milk and eggs are not unhealthy; they all have nutrients.

How can we stop this demonisation of food and be normal with it?

Stop Demonizing Food

I have to tell you, I’m a little sick of the sugar thing. And the carb thing, the wheat thing, the soda thing, the salt thing, and whatever thing we might be hearing about tomorrow. Now, I’m not recommending mass amounts of any of these foods, as they’re often consumed in the American diet. A ...

eatingdisorders.com

@Quintessence

When it comes to food, most of my concern revolves around whether people have enough of it.

As far as discussions about healthy foods vs. unhealthy foods, I never could understand some positions which are taken, although I take the information under advisement, as it's good to know what effects and consequences some foods might have. But in the end, I just eat whatever I want.

All I can say is that, in my own observation, those who eat junk food and unhealthy food without a care in the world have appeared to me to be more healthy than those who constantly fret over food and say "I can't eat this," "I can't eat that," etc. In my experience, they're the ones who seem to be sick far more often than junk food eaters.

 

[Rival]

I’m familiar with the ‘dairy bad’ mentality, and it is something that I’ve only seen on the internet.

I think the issue is that most younger people are getting their information all from the internet, so this nonsense trickles into real life.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This isn't quite what I meant.

There are folks out there telling you fruit is bad for you because apparently it's basically just sugar, which is just so off base it's nonsensical.

Or carbs, the food our forebears lived off for most of agricultural history.

The problem is laziness; people who sit down all day becoming fat from eating bread and dairy. I mean obviously that will happen, but it's not the food's fault.

I think the "problem" - to the extent that is is a problem - is food security, not laziness.

You can look at, say, cycling discussion boards and see the same threads over and over: someone has started cycling to lose weight and they're doing hours of cycling a week burning thousands of calories, but the number on the scale doesn't budge.

You can work as hard as you want, but as long as you have nutritious food available and eat when you're hungry, your weight will stay roughly the same. The thing that kept my ancestors skinny was doing lots of work while food was scarce because of some famine. That's what puts you into a calorie deficit.

That food scarcity is also what gave them scurvy and rickets, so I'd say we're better off overall.

 

[Soandso]

So I work in a hospital, and I can tell you right now that the vast majority of patients I see at my place of work are there for food related reasons. Whether it be diabetes due to sugar, liver failure due to drinking, heart failure due to fatty foods or high sodium intake, or other health complications due to obesity; In the USA there is a serious food abuse problem

It is definitely important for people to be mindful of what they put into their bodies. It's harder to do that when companies can legally trick people into consuming their daily value of sugar in one beverage easily

Who drinks a bottle of Powerade or any bottled beverage like this over a 3 day period?

 

[Rival]

I think the "problem" - to the extent that is is a problem - is food security, not laziness.

You can look at, say, cycling discussion boards and see the same threads over and over: someone has started cycling to lose weight and they're doing hours of cycling a week burning thousands of calories, but the number on the scale doesn't budge.

You can work as hard as you want, but as long as you have nutritious food available and eat when you're hungry, your weight will stay roughly the same. The thing that kept my ancestors skinny was doing lots of work while food was scarce because of some famine. That's what puts you into a calorie deficit.

That food scarcity is also what gave them scurvy and rickets, so I'd say we're better off overall.

Veggies don't cost much where I am though; meat and fish do, however.

Walking is a free option.

I think there are ways.

I work a physical job and make little money but can afford good food, and know how to cook it. I'm not sure it's a special skill.

 

[mangalavara]

All I can say is that, in my own observation, those who eat junk food and unhealthy food without a care in the world have appeared to me to be more healthy than those who constantly fret over food and say "I can't eat this," "I can't eat that," etc. In my experience, they're the ones who seem to be sick far more often than junk food eaters.

My mother noticed this about one of her sisters. The woman was unhealthy and fell ill more than anyone else.

 

[Rival]

So I work in a hospital, and I can tell you right now that the vast majority of patients I see at my place of work are there for food related reasons. Whether it be diabetes due to sugar, liver failure due to drinking, heart failure due to fatty foods or high sodium intake, or other health complications due to obesity. In the USA there is serious food abuse

It is definitely important for people to be mindful of what they put into their bodies. It's harder to do that when companies can legally trick people into consuming their daily value of sugar in one beverage easily

Who drinks a bottle of Powerade or any bottled beverage like this over a 3 day period?

The US is kind of an outlier here though.

I'm talking about real food, so to speak.

The EU and the UK have far, far more stringent rules on what can go into food and our cities are much more pedestrianised and biker friendly.

I do think this makes a difference.

If you sit on your bum all day, no matter what you eat you'll become fat.

 

[mangalavara]

How can we stop this demonisation of food and be normal with it?

We could get financial institutions to cancel the accounts of customers who make a profit off of demonizing food. Also, we could demand that pay our leaders to write laws that restrict the speech of individuals who publicly demonize food. Being loud and intimidating would help.

 

[Soandso]

The US is kind of an outlier here though.

I'm talking about real food, so to speak.

The EU and the UK have far, far more stringent rules on what can go into food and our cities are much more pedestrianised and biker friendly.

I do think this makes a difference.

If you sit on your bum all day, no matter what you eat you'll become fat.

Agreed! Only now is my area catering more to bike friendly lanes in roads, but this can be a hard thing to achieve in the US as a whole due to stroads infesting most population centers. Bicyclists are the ones demonized here

People here are comfortable sitting in their chairs at work, sitting in their cars during their commutes, then sitting on their sofas at home and playing games or watching netflix. On top of that, with our terrible and expensive health care system, folks are reluctant to seek help until it's too late

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Veggies don't cost much where I am though; meat and fish do, however.

Must be nice.

I just had a look at the app for my local grocery store: red peppers and frozen sole fillets are the exact same price ($11/kg).

 

[JustGeorge]

Just eat.

Pay attention to how it makes you feel. If cookies give you a stomach ache, best to limit them(or cut them out). Who wants a stomach ache? On the flip side, if you're down and a cookie makes you cheer up, have one(I mean one).

If too much dairy makes you sluggish, limit it. If not enough grains makes you weak, eat more.

I think the problem is we no longer listen to or trust ourselves to make these choices, and accept one size fits all solutions from people that don't actually know us or our bodies.

 

[Vee]

It seems nowadays that if you want to be healthy, you'd just end up eating vegetables.

Everything has been demonised because of sugar, fat and carbs. That literally leaves you with nothing but some meat and vegetables.

Smoothies are not bad because they have lots of sugar, in which case you are really just saying fruit is bad for you!

Meat is bad; dairy is terrible, apparently.

Everything foodwise is being demonised. There's no wonder Westerners don't know what to eat and how to balance their diets.

All foods contain nutrients to some degree. Bread, smoothies, milk and eggs are not unhealthy; they all have nutrients.

How can we stop this demonisation of food and be normal with it?

Stop Demonizing Food

I have to tell you, I’m a little sick of the sugar thing. And the carb thing, the wheat thing, the soda thing, the salt thing, and whatever thing we might be hearing about tomorrow. Now, I’m not recommending mass amounts of any of these foods, as they’re often consumed in the American diet. A ...

eatingdisorders.com

@Quintessence

My policy is to eat a good variety of real food with nutritional value. The rest depends on the season, what I feel like eating and how much energy I'm going to spend. I'll have more protein dense food when I work out and lighter food if I'm going to spend the day seating at work or on the couch.
People complicate food too much with all these diets and restrictions. I think the real issue is what has been done to the food. Ultra processing is the real problem. Our ancestors ate a bit of everything and they weren't suffering from obesity or having other people telling them off for eating what they wanted.

 

[Rival]

Must be nice.

I just had a look at the app for my local grocery store: red peppers and frozen sole fillets are the exact same price ($11/kg).

Might be since I live in an agricultural area with lots of local produce. Fruit is unreasonably priced if you buy it pre cut etc.

Aldi has really well priced fruit, veg, tins etc.

Can buy baked beans for 29p.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

These are my thoughts when I hear things like food demonization.
Big entities, like advertising agencies, political institutions even healthcare associations are all trying to operate for the biggest data averages for the most people. The problem is:

A. That's a moving target. Data about relative health even in the majority sense is always changing. Data gets reinterpreted or changes over time. We used to think MSG sensitivity was a thing. Now we know it's not. The general guidelines for fat, protein, fiber, good cholesterol, vitamins and minerals have all markedly changed over the years, and will doubt continue to do so because metabolism and food science is one of the most complicated sciences we have. Literally moreso than rocket science.

B. The concept of health is corrupted by business practice. Most of these demonizations don't actually come from the science front but the business front. In trying to cement their brand recognition they have to be unique. Hence why you can cite a brand which kicked off a major wave of food elimination. Such as Atkins or Keto. Ditto with news sources making a buck by uncharitable or just inaccurate interpretations of a study in articles and headlines. Food deserts are also something that play into this, where the most accessible food in some regions are the ones most shelf stable for shipping. Which means processed low nutrient food.

C. Demonization isn't always for health reasons. I.e. massive protests of the way avocado and almonds are farmed because of the staggering water waste and environmental impact those two staples have. Ditto beef. Plus where environmental science and food science meets like with monoculturing.

D. There are a *lot* of people who fall outside averages. My mom's hormone situation is so bad thay she will always need monitoring by a doctor and medication to keep weight off (and she will always be obese by BMI scales) and out of diabetes. She is still currently pre-diabetic with high cholesterol even though she has always eaten healthy, doesn't smoke and doesn't drink, and gets regularly 100,000 steps a week. It's because her PCOS went undiagnosed for most of her life and it's a metabolic hormone disorder which alters your insulin receptivity, slows your metabolism, keeps your body in fat storage mode. So your moderate level of carbs and sugars changes drastically from the average.

It's also the most common hormone disorder with close to 1 in 5 women diagnosed with it in some form. Nowhere near a majority but a significant chunk of the population which can't just follow a general healthy lifestyle to stay healthy. They need more.

And that's just one such example of something that individualizes healthcare and dietary needs. There's a lot more where that comes from.

Anyway thays my ramble.