Demons are Sent Back Here According to the Bhagavad Gita

[wizanda]

After re-reading the Gita the other day, went over chapter 16 in multiple translations, as it uses the word Asura which is a demon in Hinduism; yet it applies it to people, and says that they're sent back down here, before possibly being sent lower to Hell (Naraka).

Chapter 16, Verse 1-3
The Blessed Lord said: Fearlessness, purification of one's existence, cultivation of spiritual knowledge, charity, self-control, performance of sacrifice, study of the Vedas, austerity and simplicity; nonviolence, truthfulness, freedom from anger; renunciation, tranquility, aversion to faultfinding, compassion and freedom from covetousness; gentleness, modesty and steady determination; vigor, forgiveness, fortitude, cleanliness, freedom from envy and the passion for honor-these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature.

Chapter 16, Verse 4
Arrogance, pride, anger, conceit, harshness and ignorance-these qualities belong to those of demonic nature, O son of Prtha.

Chapter 16, Verse 5
The transcendental qualities are conducive to liberation, whereas the demonic qualities make for bondage. Do not worry, O son of Pandu, for you are born with the divine qualities.

Chapter 16, Verse 6
O son of Prtha, in this world there are two kinds of created beings. One is called the divine and the other demonic. I have already explained to you at length the divine qualities. Now hear from Me of the demoniac.

Chapter 16, Verse 7
Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them.

Chapter 16, Verse 8
They say that this world is unreal, that there is no foundation and that there is no God in control. It is produced of sex desire, and has no cause other than lust.

Chapter 16, Verse 9
Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world.

Chapter 16, Verse 10
The demoniac, taking shelter of insatiable lust, pride and false prestige, and being thus illusioned, are always sworn to unclean work, attracted by the impermanent.

Chapter 16, Verse 11-12
They believe that to gratify the senses unto the end of life is the prime necessity of human civilization. Thus there is no end to their anxiety. Being bound by hundreds and thousands of desires, by lust and anger, they secure money by illegal means for sense gratification.

Chapter 16, Verse 13-15
The demoniac person thinks: So much wealth do I have today, and I will gain more according to my schemes. So much is mine now, and it will increase in the future, more and more. He is my enemy, and I have killed him; and my other enemy will also be killed. I am the lord of everything, I am the enjoyer, I am perfect, powerful and happy. I am the richest man, surrounded by aristocratic relatives. There is none so powerful and happy as I am. I shall perform sacrifices, I shall give some charity, and thus I shall rejoice. In this way, such persons are deluded by ignorance.

Chapter 16, Verse 16
Thus perplexed by various anxieties and bound by a network of illusions, one becomes too strongly attached to sense enjoyment and falls down into hell.

Chapter 16, Verse 17
Self-complacent and always impudent, deluded by wealth and false prestige, they sometimes perform sacrifices in name only without following any rules or regulations.

Chapter 16, Verse 18
Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demon becomes envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in his own body and in the bodies of others, and blasphemes against the real religion.

Chapter 16, Verse 19
Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life.

Chapter 16, Verse 20
Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence.

Chapter 16, Verse 21
There are three gates leading to this hell-lust, anger, and greed. Every sane man should give these up, for they lead to the degradation of the soul.

Chapter 16, Verse 22
The man who has escaped these three gates of hell, O son of Kunti, performs acts conducive to self-realization and thus gradually attains the supreme destination.

Chapter 16, Verse 23
But he who discards scriptural injunctions and acts according to his own whims attains neither perfection, nor happiness, nor the supreme destination.

Chapter 16, Verse 24
One should understand what is duty and what is not duty by the regulations of the scriptures. Knowing such rules and regulations, one should act so that he may gradually be elevated.

So just like many other theologies globally, it seems like here is the top floor of Hell according to the text; so are people just in a state of denial that some of us are demons, and this world isn't for the Godly currently as is often presented, yet the delusional (Maya), who refuse to accept reality as it is?

Personally perceive that due to that every action causes an equal and opposite reaction, if people were told the truth, that they're a demon, they'd strive to go the other way; yet due to these concepts being diluted, people think they're enlightened down near Hell.

So why has this concept been completely reversed in Hindu thinking? I've had discussions on here of people telling me people are not demons according to Hinduism, that there is no Hell in Hinduism, etc...

Same happens in most religions that people don't seem to accept the harsh realities, and would rather present what they like to hear.

 

[SomeRandom]

"Demons" are not a thing in Hindu theology. Not in the Abrahamic sense anyway. They are "anti gods" more akin to the Vanir vs AEsir feud in Norse theology.
"Demons" is a common translation used in English because it's easier to convey the concept, albeit very roughly, to a mostly Abrahamic influenced audience. So called "demons" as you refer to them can actually go to heaven and there are many stories involving their good traits. Some are highly religious, gaining boons (gifts) from deities as rewards for their sincere devotion. Some are even worshiped.
Sin is also sometimes used in translations, even though that's not a very good translation of the concept.

Hell does exist in Hinduism, but it posits that it is a state of being, not something you can wander through the many layers of ala Dante and Virgil. Although there are different levels depending on what "sin" one is being cleansed of.

Of course there are many different interpretations within Hinduism.

So, if you would like to make claims about a Holy Book, fine. It's fine to interpret things. But you might want to dig a little bit into the background and context a little more. And it might be pertinent not to try to fit a different theology into an understanding from a completely different paradigm. Translations of the Bhagavad Gita, the Ramayana and the Mahabarata are often "wonky" because of that exact issue. Some concepts just aren't translated accurately or simplified or just don't translate particularly well.

 

[Kapalika]

Ya, I was gonna mention too that "demons" in Hinduism are not necessarily evil.

Really though, the idea that I'm a demon sounds pretty cool, unless it's meant as a shaming thing, which is what I think you are coming from, seeing as you are really Abrahamic from what I understand.

Hinduism isn't really into shaming people into going after truth, unlike other religions. I think if you have to shame anyone into it, to use coercion it just shows how untrue that religion is. If you need coercion, shaming included, it isn't righteous or true.

 

[Rival]

My inner Zoroastrian is saying "No! The Daevas are the demons! The Ahuras are the good guys!"

And I'm not going to argue with it.

 

[wizanda]

And it might be pertinent not to try to fit a different theology into an understanding from a completely different paradigm.

It might be pertinent not to assume I'm Abrahamic....

I'm speaking from first hand experience, and then trying to comprehend if our texts globally explain what exists correctly.

Not in the Abrahamic sense anyway.

The Abrahamic context is completely discombobulated....

Satan means an accuser, and devil means a slanderer; these are inherent within people, not some external entity, just the same as the Gita is expressing.

They've done the exact same thing, and tried to remove any form of internal responsibility, and pass the blame onto something external.

They are "anti gods"

This would depend which text is being quoted, this thread is only on the Gita, and not all the rest....

The Gita says Adharmic people here are Asuras.

As an avatar i've spent my life seeing demons in people, and due to the many lies in society, was thinking it was just me; so to find that most religious texts say the same thing, and people don't actually know what they're talking about is refreshing.

So called "demons" as you refer to them can actually go to heaven and there are many stories involving their good traits.

Aware of the vast array of text, with many narratives; yet unfortunately not all of these are divinely inspired...

Based on quantum physics, something that is impure can not ascend through the dimensions to reach Brahman.

The demons being discussed in the Gita, is the same i've seen in my NDE down in Hell, and here since coming back, that faulty character traits can attach to people's egos.

The soul when it becomes distorted from being a pure wave; it can become twisted and distorted, this to me is a demon....Not seen any external monsters or creatures in reality.

But you might want to dig a little bit into the background and context a little more.

Spent my life studying theologies.

Hell does exist in Hinduism, but it posits that it is a state of being, not something you can wander through the many layers ala Dante and Virgil.

See with statements like these, I'm beginning to wonder if people are even aware they're lying to themselves...

Have a look at the Wikipedia page, Hell is described in its many layers, that people can go to.

Hell within the Gita is a place below us, same as in most religions around the world...

Why do we have to argue against the basic fundamentals of reality; to the point people are becoming irreligious, as everyone is trying to oppose each other, before trying to understand?

seeing as you are really Abrahamic from what I understand.

I've not only got Abrahamic understanding; it is just a bigger problem, so have spent more time comprehending its workings.

"demons" in Hinduism are not necessarily evil.

Personally don't see anything as evil; it is all perspective...

The shoal of fish that the swan has just eaten from, see it as evil, and not beautiful.

The definition within the Gita of the demons, is the same as our thread, 'trying to list all the demons we see in people'...

If people were aware of these things, that this world is our last hope before we're sent lower; then we could all do something about it.

the idea that I'm a demon sounds pretty cool, unless it's meant as a shaming thing,

It isn't a shaming thing; i've got my own inner demons I'm here working out in the Maya again, within a linear time frame.

You're not the demon tho, they are traits that are attached to our self; things that are not conducive to being one with Brahman, and thus we fall down here because of our own egos.

 

[SomeRandom]

It might be pertinent not to assume I'm Abrahamic.

I said different paradigm. Not that you were Abrahamic. I apologize if I implied otherwise.

The Abrahamic context is completely discombobulated....

The context is indeed more complex. But not particularly "Eastern" as it were.If you get my meaning?

Satan means an accuser, and devil means a slanderer; these are inherent within people, not some external entity, just the same as the Gita is expressing.

Satan as a concept doesn't even exist in Hinduism either way. So that's an.......interesting interpretation.

They've done the exact same thing, and tried to remove any form of internal responsibility, and pass the blame onto something external.

Now that's how I've always viewed Satan and his demons, tbh. But the Asura aren't really spoken of in the same terms, culturally speaking. They're avoided, feared, revered and sometimes worshiped. But no one seems to "blame" them per se, not in the vein of people blaming Satan for literally every ill. Curses are though. Especially from "Holy People." Although there are some very odd superstitions revolving around the Asura.

Aware of the vast array of text, with many narratives; yet unfortunately not all of these are divinely inspired...

Oh, so the texts not lining up with your theory are suddenly not "divinely inspired" now? How terribly convenient.
See the problem with that is, everything, every atom, every drop of water, every "demon" is often considered to be divine. Meaning, this

Based on quantum physics, something that is impure can not ascend through the dimensions to reach Brahman.

is not usually accepted within the theology. Which as you have spent a lifetime studying, you would be well aware of this.

"Pure." "Impure" ehhh, such things aren't very clear cut. It's more like a sliding scale. Like "good" and "evil." Perspective and context is what quantifies such concepts, not necessarily actions by themselves. I mean Indra, who literally rules Heaven, is considered to be an Asura. (Depending on the school of course.) Though he is also often in the Deva camp. So the line, at least at first, was probably a lot more fuzzy.
Now, I am not well versed on Quantum Physics so okay, but I doubt theology genuinely cares that much about its conclusions. It has its own understanding of the realms.

See with statements like these, I'm beginning to wonder if people are even aware they're lying to themselves...

And with statements like this, I'm beginning to wonder if you're aware of this thing, called "schools."
Different interpretations, differing texts, differing understandings even.
Some consider it a bottomless black pit with no escape, some think it's impermanent and run by Yama. Some even consider it to be a metaphor. Some, like you, consider this plane to be the real Naraka.

Why do we have to argue against the basic fundamentals of reality; to the point people are becoming irreligious, as everyone is trying to oppose each other, before trying to understand?

People like to argue? I dunno. It seems like you want to understand other theologies only through a specific lens. So are you trying to understand? Or are you trying to make theologies understand you?
I mean, me, I just like being contrary. It amuses me.

But at the end of the day, I guess much like you, this all does seem a bit like arguing semantics. If this is your interpretation, then so be it. If it makes you happy, then who am I to deny that?

 

[wizanda]

Namaste SomeRandom-Ji,

Sorry for being slightly harsh; thanks for the solid reply.

If it makes you happy, then who am I to deny that?

We can't deny anyone's interpretations, and understandings; that is part of the beauty of consciousness, that it is organic, and will seek to question in all the gaps.

So are you trying to understand? Or are you trying to make theologies understand you?

Both, would like to question using a scientific method: all religions globally, NDEs, childhood memories of past lifes, etc, each in context, and then sit, and finalize between us, what is really going on.

Since got first hand memory, can't overwrite Hell doesn't exist, as have been there; thus would like people to comprehend, that the perspective I'm coming from, is to get to the bottom of it.

Plus enjoy Satsang with people capable of intellectually exploring any concepts.

It's more like a sliding scale. Like "good" and "evil."

We can see it all based on frequency, dense vibration is darker; some people call it evil...

Based on what is expressed in the Gita, it is these negative traits, that make us denser, and thus we don't ascend (moksha).

See the problem with that is, everything, every atom, every drop of water, every "demon" is often considered part of the divine.

My own theology is that the CPU manifests our reality; therefore everything has been processed, yet that doesn't mean something within the Matrix is pure, as we're in a place with lots of demons running around.

Bhagavad Gita 9.4
This entire cosmic manifestation is pervaded by me in my unmanifest form. All living beings dwell in me, but I do not dwell in them.
Bhagavad Gita 9.29
I am equally disposed to all living beings; I am neither inimical nor partial to anyone. But the devotees who worship me with love reside in me and I reside in them.

Therefore it is only those who connect to the Oneness of Brahman, that are not demons down here; thus personally think there is a lot of misguidance, and to much trusting in a text because it is old.

Satan as a concept doesn't even exist in Hinduism either way.

There are multiple concepts that have all been interwoven in Christian beliefs, to make their supposed Satan character... Yet the text doesn't necessarily do the same.

Some of the things ascribed to it are under different headings, so the deception of mankind, to have a time of ungodliness is Kali yuga.

The 'synagogue of satan' (Pharisaic) that the church adopted is Raktabīja (blood seed).

Kali though not a negative force in Hinduism, and working with the Divine to remove the demons; is the same force in Judaism, Satan is commanded by YHVH.

In multiple religious eschatology globally the reason for the cleansing of the earth to happen, is to remove the blood thirsty.

Hopefully that makes sense, basically i see Hindu Lila (game of the Gods) as being something happening globally over time, and the character Satan is there in metaphoric descriptors.

But not particularly "Eastern" as it were.If you get my meaning?

Think i do, that we can go into metaphoric energies, and not even demons in eastern thinking; thus like within the yin, and yang is just seen as a balance.

Although there are some very odd superstitions revolving around the Asura.

Something need to get around to doing, and looking up all these customs, and names meanings; to see if there was originally someone enlightened putting narratives across to help people deal with their own inner demons.

 

[Aupmanyav]

OP: Shishupala and Dantavakra, demons during Krishna's time did not return. They went back to Lord Vishnu's heaven, Vaikuntha, to resume their duties as door-keepers.

My inner Zoroastrian is saying "No! The Daevas are the demons! The Ahuras are the good guys!"

Even after thousands of years, you people have not mellowed down.

 

[Desert Snake]

After re-reading the Gita the other day, went over chapter 16 in multiple translations, as it uses the word Asura which is a demon in Hinduism; yet it applies it to people, and says that they're sent back down here, before possibly being sent lower to Hell (Naraka).


So just like many other theologies globally, it seems like here is the top floor of Hell according to the text; so are people just in a state of denial that some of us are demons, and this world isn't for the Godly currently as is often presented, yet the delusional (Maya), who refuse to accept reality as it is?

Personally perceive that due to that every action causes an equal and opposite reaction, if people were told the truth, that they're a demon, they'd strive to go the other way; yet due to these concepts being diluted, people think they're enlightened down near Hell.

So why has this concept been completely reversed in Hindu thinking? I've had discussions on here of people telling me people are not demons according to Hinduism, that there is no Hell in Hinduism, etc...

Same happens in most religions that people don't seem to accept the harsh realities, and would rather present what they like to hear.

Was it Prabhupada's version? /explanations?

 

[Desert Snake]

You might want to try that version

 

[wizanda]

Was it Prabhupada's version? /explanations?

Lol, nope amazingly, considering the availability...

Download Bhagavad Gita - Free English PDF translations

Bhagavad Gita, The Song of God – Swami Mukundananda

Like this site as can cross reference the words within it....

Generally will only surface look at other people's commentaries on a text; prefer to understand it myself first.

 

[Desert Snake]

Lol, nope amazingly, considering the availability...

Download Bhagavad Gita - Free English PDF translations

Bhagavad Gita, The Song of God – Swami Mukundananda

Like this site as can cross reference the words within it....

Generally will only surface look at other people's commentaries on a text; prefer to understand it myself first.

I wouldnt interpret that as some people are actually demons, nor this is a level of hell

 

[wizanda]

I wouldnt interpret that as some people are actually demons, nor this is a level of hell

Agreed it says people are demons; yet then it says they're then sent back down here... Those who've attained enlightenment are freed from here.

There are multiple levels above us, and then Hell is below us...

BG 8.16: In all the worlds of this material creation, up to the highest abode of Brahma, you will be subject to rebirth, O Arjun. But on attaining my abode, O son of Kunti, there is no further rebirth.

Thus we're on the top floor of Hell if it is directly below us, and we're closer to Hell, than we are to Heaven.

 

[Desert Snake]

Agreed it says people are demons; yet then it says they're then sent back down here... Those who've attained enlightenment are freed from here.

There are multiple levels above us, and then Hell is below us...

BG 8.16: In all the worlds of this material creation, up to the highest abode of Brahma, you will be subject to rebirth, O Arjun. But on attaining my abode, O son of Kunti, there is no further rebirth.

Thus we're on the top floor of Hell if it is directly below us, and we're closer to Hell, than we are to Heaven.

Right, thats how I read it as well.
Except that I dont think hell is necessarily useful as description here.

 

[wizanda]

Except that I dont think hell is necessarily useful as description here.

Think the problem is some of the ideas that have been integrated into the word 'Hell'....

Yet when we go back to its definitions (Sheol, Hell, Hades, etc), it is a dark shadowy underworld below this one.

BG 16.16: Possessed and led astray by such imaginings, enveloped in a mesh of delusion, and addicted to the gratification of sensuous pleasures, they descend to the murkiest hell (narake).

BG 16.21: There are three gates leading to the hell (narakasya) of self-destruction for the soul—lust, anger, and greed. Therefore, all should abandon these three.

BG 1.44: O Janardan (Krishna), I have heard from the learned that those who destroy family traditions dwell in hell for an indefinite period of time.

 

[SomeRandom]

Namaste SomeRandom-Ji,

Sorry for being slightly harsh; thanks for the solid reply.

Namaste. I too apologize if I was being harsh towards you. People interpreting Hindu texts outside of the Hindu paradigm is quite common and not always in a way that agrees with our sensibilities (See Kali turned into a sex, drug and rock and roll goddess by 70s Feminists. I mean they are perfectly free to do so, it's just weird to me.) So being defensive is an automatic response.

We can't deny anyone's interpretations, and understandings; that is part of the beauty of consciousness, that it is organic, and will seek to question in all the gaps.

That I agree with. Everyone is unique, so too are their interpretations. An infinite amount of expressions of ideas throughout humanity. Some call it theology, others philosophy, others still science and of course "religion."

Both, would like to question using a scientific method: all religions globally, NDEs, childhood memories of past lifes, etc, each in context, and then sit, and finalize between us, what is really going on.

Since got first hand memory, can't overwrite Hell doesn't exist, as have been there; thus would like people to comprehend, that the perspective I'm coming from, is to get to the bottom of it.

Plus enjoy Satsang with people capable of intellectually exploring any concepts.

Fair enough.

We can see it all based on frequency, dense vibration is darker; some people call it evil...

Based on what is expressed in the Gita, it is these negative traits, that make us denser, and thus we don't ascend (moksha).

I wouldn't go that far. Ravana received moksha, as did practically all the "evil" demon people Krishna defeated. Except Kansa I think. Duryodhana (who was considered to be the demon Kali in human form no less) not only got moksha after being cheated of victory in his final battle, but literally achieved God status. And Krishna didn't exactly play by the rules if memory serves.
I think Hinduism might be a little more optimistic than you in this sense. Nothing short of being Hitler 2.0 can really bar you from moksha in life, if your good traits win out in the end. At least that's how I see it.
We cannot hope to be perfect. We all have good and evil, our actions can only be judged as adharmic and dharmic depending on the specific circumstances surrounding them. Although I think for clarity's sake, you should define what exactly you mean by "demon."
A Hindu might not think much of the term, because it's a very Abrahamic term in and of itself, thereby negating any impetus that you seem to assume would automatically happen when one adopts the label.

There are multiple concepts that have all been interwoven in Christian beliefs, to make their supposed Satan character... Yet the text doesn't necessarily do the same.

Some of the things ascribed to it are under different headings, so the deception of mankind, to have a time of ungodliness is Kali yuga.

The 'synagogue of satan' (Pharisaic) that the church adopted is Raktabīja (blood seed).

Kali though not a negative force in Hinduism, and working with the Divine to remove the demons; is the same force in Judaism, Satan is commanded by YHVH.

In multiple religious eschatology globally the reason for the cleansing of the earth to happen, is to remove the blood thirsty.

Hopefully that makes sense, basically i see Hindu Lila (game of the Gods) as being something happening globally over time, and the character Satan is there in metaphoric descriptors.

For what it's worth, I never really considered Satan to be a completely "evil" force. I mean if God controls literally everything, surely He's commanding Satan to do his bidding.

Think i do, that we can go into metaphoric energies, and not even demons in eastern thinking; thus like within the yin, and yang is just seen as a balance.

Exactly. That yin yang concept is found within "demons" themselves. They are not just evil or good. They are themselves demi gods or lower, they're just not as benevolent as a lot of the Devas. They both fight, but we need both and can find both traits within both groups.

Something need to get around to doing, and looking up all these customs, and names meanings; to see if there was originally someone enlightened putting narratives across to help people deal with their own inner demons.

Perhaps there were. There is this thought that perhaps the Asuras weren't always so associated with negativity and they were actually at first seen in a much more positive light. But as time went on, such concepts began to be more simplified for peoples' understanding. Hence the quite fuzzy line between them even in modern understandings.

 

[wizanda]

Although I think for clarity's sake, you should define what exactly you mean by "demon."

Personally go to the Socrates Greek version, a Daimon is a spirit within, similar to a Genius where we are guided by external forces. Socrates perceived his Daimon guided, and helped him.

Here is my poem explaining our comprehension.

I think Hinduism might be a little more optimistic than you in this sense. Nothing short of being Hitler 2.0 can really bar you from moksha in life, if your good traits win out in the end.

Yeah, sort of a bit hard on people, as see it they can cleanse their own inner demons with the light of Brahman; yet need to remember it takes time for them to compute.

One of my past lifes was as an oak tree, so i learned patients when the seeds will drop, and not to demand they get it when i say.

Still learning, and dealing with my own, and yet in my NDE, God was so patient and knowing, explaining the reasoning behind every instance.

Thank you for the explanation, makes me realize this ultimatum mentality isn't necessarily a good thing; when we take into account the divine is trying to educate us, not destroy us, else it already would have.

 

[Kapalika]

I've not only got Abrahamic understanding; it is just a bigger problem, so have spent more time comprehending its workings.

Personally don't see anything as evil; it is all perspective...

The shoal of fish that the swan has just eaten from, see it as evil, and not beautiful.

The definition within the Gita of the demons, is the same as our thread, 'trying to list all the demons we see in people'...

If people were aware of these things, that this world is our last hope before we're sent lower; then we could all do something about it.

It isn't a shaming thing; i've got my own inner demons I'm here working out in the Maya again, within a linear time frame.

You're not the demon tho, they are traits that are attached to our self; things that are not conducive to being one with Brahman, and thus we fall down here because of our own egos.

Bigger problem of what? You can't always mish-mash ideas together and it work out...

You see nothing as evil personally? Don't you mean objectively? Or like, okay, let me gather up some puppies and drown them for fun. Is that evil? Most people would say yes. I wouldn't say it is, and I could say that with a straight face if I didn't think people's reactions are funny to stuff like that. Is it un-Dharmic? Sure, probably. I guess. I mean, I don't see the point in senseless slaughter, and I don't think it has any redeeming value spiritually speaking. The action is empty and yet causes serious harm, that's more the problem more so than potentially disagreeing with the content of a possible meaning. I wouldn't call that evil, but most would.

How do you know I'm not a demon? What is a demon? As I understand it, I totally could be a demon, it would sure explain a lot. Maybe people got shadows, demons, whatever, but to me the answer isn't to banish them so much as accept them and work on yourself as a person. I also don't think we are brought here due to ego, but kept here because of ego. Ego is emergent, necessary for physical living beings.

 

[wizanda]

You see nothing as evil personally? Don't you mean objectively?

My understanding is it is all perspective...

Would be nice to think other people could think the same; yet religious people tend to bind certain things as being evil, depending on their religious indoctrination.

let me gather up some puppies and drown them for fun. Is that evil?

It all depends on context; if the gathering of the puppies was due to them having some illness or some other reason that meant it was beneficial, then what some perceive as evil, might not be.

Is it un-Dharmic?

Dharma is doing duty; could be a dog warden doing their job.

How do you know I'm not a demon?

Before knowing the religious texts says people are demons, spent my life seeing them in people...

We've all got them, it is when the demons attached to our ego, where it causes our soul to become distorted, that it becomes an issue.

This whole realm is like a prison between Heaven and Hell for us all to learn from; it is a great training ground when people understand that.

What is a demon?

As explained in my last post, i take Socrates understanding, that it's a spirit that can lead us, similar to a genius.

Sort of see demons, like viruses within the Matrix, that attach to a person's ego.

I also don't think we are brought here due to ego, but kept here because of ego.

Originally we were all with Brahman, this is the time of Satya Yuga; we choose to come down here to explore our desires (ego).

Ego isn't a bad thing; it's just a projection from the self, to protect the soul.

Maybe people got shadows, demons, whatever, but to me the answer isn't to banish them so much as accept them

According to the text, it is for repeat offenders that are imprisoned for a time lower than here; yet see here as a rehab for problem cases...

Just our comprehension of religious texts, means people pass the buck, and rather than dealing with our own inner demons, some people seem to think here is only to explore our desires.

 

[Aupmanyav]

After re-reading the Gita the other day, went over chapter 16 in multiple translations, as it uses the word Asura which is a demon in Hinduism; yet it applies it to people, and says that they're sent back down here, before possibly being sent lower to Hell (Naraka).

Asura means powerful. Yes, some demons are powerful. Vritra is an example, but so is Mahabali who was a great devotee of Gods and Lord Vishnu. He will rule the world as Indra in the next 'Caturyuga' (cycle of four ages) because of good deeds. All Gods, except Lord Vishnu, are mentioned in RigVeda as Asuras.

But on attaining my abode, O son of Kunti, there is no further rebirth.

What is Lord Vishnnu's abode and who attains freedom from cycle of rebirth - The one who rejects the dualities of the world.

"Jñeyaḥ sa nitya-sannyāsī, yo na dveṣṭi na kāńkṣati;
nirdvandvo hi mahā-bāho, sukhaḿ bandhāt pramucyate." BG 5.3

One who neither hates nor desires the fruits of his activities is known to be always renounced. Such a person, free from all dualities, O mighty-armed Arjuna, easily overcomes material bondage and is completely liberated.

"addicted to the gratification of sensuous pleasures, lust, anger, and greed, destroy family traditions". Sure, wise people don't do that.

Originally we were all with Brahman, this is the time of Satya Yuga; we choose to come down here to explore our desires (ego).

Is there an up and a down in universe? We are none other than Brahman (All things here are Brahman - 'Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahma', You too are that - 'Tat twam asi'). You never ceased to be Brahman even for a moment and never will. Brahman alone exists, there is no second.

You yourself accept it - Oneness, True faith.