Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

[Dan From Smithville]

You have your opinion and one needs to justify a belief or lack thereof. So if a person calls himself a Christian then that in itself would enjoin a person to justify that belief. IMO. Maybe not yours. OK, not maybe. Definitely it's not your opinion. Seems some people like to keep really quiet when it comes to examining their own reasoning...

I do not need to establish what I believe in this discussion. I'm not claiming anything. I have been asking others to support their claims with the evidence they use to establish the fact of their claims so that I can know how they do it too. So that others can also know. No one has been able to do that so far.

Continually making posts like this one about me is irrelevant to the discussion and amounts to harassment.

 

[DNB]

He's asking you to provide reasons for believing it...

I asked you a simple question....
...does your disbelief in demons stem from the fact that you're an atheist, and therefore do not accept the existence of any entity within the spiritual realms?
Or, you believe in God, but not angels or demons?

 

[YoursTrue]

I believe there is a lady in church who tells me to behave myself but I am not disposed to do that. However I did refrain at the last weks Bible study from mentioning re-incarnation again since it bugs the pastor. Usually I don't show that much restraint.

The thing is I wonder what scriptural reasoning the pastor uses if you bring up a subject like that. (Do you believe in reincarnation? I guess that's a question that would bug the pastor if he can't reason on it with you anyway...)

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I asked you a simple question....
...does your disbelief in demons stem from the fact that you're an atheist, and therefore do not accept the existence of any entity within the spiritual realms?
Or, you believe in God, but not angels or demons?

You do know he is an atheist right?

 

[YoursTrue]

I do not need to establish what I believe in this discussion. I'm not claiming anything. I have been asking others to support their claims with the evidence they use to establish the fact of their claims so that I can know how they do it too. So that others can also know. No one has been able to do that so far.

Continually making posts like this one about me is irrelevant to the discussion and amounts to harassment.

I would figure that some go by experience. Even IF a person has knowledge of a subject, such as what could be considered in part false knowledge, it is often justified by some as a means to progress.

 

[YoursTrue]

I asked you a simple question....
...does your disbelief in demons stem from the fact that you're an atheist, and therefore do not accept the existence of any entity within the spiritual realms?
Or, you believe in God, but not angels or demons?

@Dan From Smithville , with all due respect, it's a reasonable question, not to be discounted.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I would figure that some go by experience. Even IF a person has knowledge of a subject, such as what could be considered in part false knowledge, it is often justified by some as a means to progress.

One gains experience with something tangible. If it is tangible, then it can be demonstrated. No one has demonstrated anything here regarding identifying demons or their claimed actions.

I have no idea what the rest means. If you have false knowledge, how can you progress. Unless you are trying to con someone I suppose.

 

[DNB]

The point of this thread and what you are claiming is independent of what I believe.

You keep claiming evidence for something, but you don't seem to be able to provide that evidence. You claim demons are at once immaterial and material. It can't be both.

If I believe in it or don't doesn't make a bit of difference to what you fail to support.

Do you make major purchases without any knowledge of what you are purchasing? Would you buy a car or house just on the say so of some random individual that can't show you either? My believing the seller has a house or a car for sale doesn't have any impact on whether the seller does or doesn't.

You claim there is evidence for demons and I want to see that evidence. Not ice cream or sundaes or big, fat, juicy steaks or mental illness or crime, or people being mean to each other. Unambiguous, physical, objective evidence that anyone can see without first having to believe.

And none of that spiritual discernment claim either. You would have to demonstrate to me and everyone here that you have that too. You could just think you do or be claiming it to fit into a group for all anyone knows.

We want evidence for the claims people make. Not just smoke and mirrors and diversions.

Has instances of demon possession been documented?
You are aware of the term, so therefore you have heard of such circumstances - are these simply fictional occurrences, or is there a contingency of reliable testimonies claiming the veracity of such a phenomenon?
If the latter, that would be evidence. All psychosis known to man are not all derived from chemical imbalances or organic ruptures or deformities - some of the symptoms allude to wicked and perverse speech. This is not a misfiring or short-circuiting issue, if so, that would merely result in incoherent or irrational speech and functionality.
Racism, for example, is evil, it's not the same thing as dementia which merely causes one to become disoriented, forgetful or inept. Hearing voices that coerce one to murder others, is not due to a chemical imbalance.

 

[DNB]

You do know he is an atheist right?

I assumed so, but couldn't remember, or be bothered to look it up (if still available).

 

[Dan From Smithville]

@Dan From Smithville , with all due respect, it's a reasonable question, not to be discounted.

It is not a relevant question. I haven't made any claims one way or the other about my belief or disbelief in demons.

Along with a great many people, I have made relevant and reasonable requests for unambiguos, objective evidence that demonstrates demons or the verifiable action of demons.

No one has been able to meet that reasonable standard.

Your belief, my belief or the belief of anyone participating in this thread is irrelevant to the fact that no one has presented demonstrable evidence for demons.

Continually focusing on the beliefs of one person on here when it is irrelevant must mean there is another reason for doing so. Continually doing it when it has been clearly demonstrated to be irrelevant is harassment.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Has instances of demon possession been documented?
You are aware of the term, so therefore you have heard of such circumstances - are these simply fictional occurrences, or is there a contingency of reliable testimonies claiming the veracity of such a phenomenon?
If the latter, that would be evidence. All psychosis known to man are not all derived from chemical imbalances or organic ruptures or deformities - some of the symptoms allude to wicked and perverse speech. This is not a misfiring or short-circuiting issue, if so, that would merely result in incoherent or irrational speech and functionality.
Racism, for example, is evil, it's not the same thing as dementia which merely causes one to become disoriented, forgetful or inept. Hearing voices that coerce one to murder others, is not due to a chemical imbalance.

Superman is documented. I'm aware of him and the documentation. I'm sure you are too. The documentation is evidence for a claim of Superman and not evidence that Superman exists. I can't dig up Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster to quiz them on where they got the idea, so it isn't useful as eyewitness testimony. In any event, it isn't the kind of evidence that you have been claiming.

If we don't know an organic cause for mental illness, then you are claiming we can reasonably insert demon as the cause without any further evidence? You do realize that is gap theory. Demons of the gaps.

How do you know that racism isn't just man's evil or that voices aren't just a mental aberration? That is the crux of this entire thread. Not your claims that something is caused by demons. But your evidence that establishes demons and nothing else.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I assumed so, but couldn't remember, or be bothered to look it up (if still available).

If you can't be bothered by important details, how do you expect to establish your claims?

 

[Trailblazer]

Winner frubal.

I'll second that...
*WINNER*

 

[Dan From Smithville]

The question of this thread isn't about what people believe about demons or what religion they believe in. It is what can demonstrated regarding the existence of demons and regarding any claims made about demons.

Clearly it is a very difficult question for people to answer, since they keep veering off topic to discuss what other members believe about...anything.

That's a diversion. It isn't what I would expect from people claiming to know and to have more sophisticated and substantial beliefs than others.

 

[DNB]

If you can't be bothered by important details, how do you expect to establish your claims?

For crying out loud, no one is ignoring these requisite details, I merely expedited the process by asking for the answer, and not trying to play sleuth. Mama mia?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

For crying out loud, no one is ignoring these requisite details, I merely expedited the process by asking for the answer, and not trying to play sleuth. Mama mia?

Good grief. You just said you couldn't be bothered with finding out what you agree now are requisite details.

Never mind.

 

[DNB]

Superman is documented. I'm aware of him and the documentation. I'm sure you are too. The documentation is evidence for a claim of Superman and not evidence that Superman exists. I can't dig up Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster to quiz them on where they got the idea, so it isn't useful as eyewitness testimony. In any event, it isn't the kind of evidence that you have been claiming.

If we don't know an organic cause for mental illness, then you are claiming we can reasonably insert demon as the cause without any further evidence? You do realize that is gap theory. Demons of the gaps.

How do you know that racism isn't just man's evil or that voices aren't just a mental aberration? That is the crux of this entire thread. Not your claims that something is caused by demons. But your evidence that establishes demons and nothing else.

From an atheistic perspective (yours), how is evil derived from stardust and protoplasm? From your worldview, on what grounds would you even deem something as evil, if it's all subjective at this point - some are racists and proud of it, some enjoy rape, porno, or pedophilia.
If you think that universally, all men agree that murder is wrong, how come when a dog kills a cat or squirrel it is not considered as a wicked act?
You're overlooking, or taking for granted the fact that humans have been endowed with a conscience and sense of morality (created in the image of God).
Your demand for justice indicts your perspective that there is no God, spirituality or absolute morals and truths.

 

[DNB]

Good grief. You just said you couldn't be bothered with finding out what you agree now are requisite details.

Never mind.

I COULDN'T BE BOTHERED TO LOOK IT UP, I SAID, when the answer is just a question away. If no response, then I don't care.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

From an atheistic perspective (yours), how is evil derived from stardust and protoplasm? From your worldview, on what grounds would you even deem something as evil, if it's all subjective at this point - some are racists and proud of it, some enjoy rape, porno, or pedophilia.
If you think that universally, all men agree that murder is wrong, how come when a dog kills a cat or squirrel it is not considered as a wicked act?
You're overlooking, or taking for granted the fact that humans have been endowed with a conscience and sense of morality (created in the image of God).
Your demand for justice indicts your perspective that there is no God, spirituality or absolute morals and truths.

I don't have an atheistic perspective, so I can't speak to it.

Is there going to be any attempt at all by you to demonstrate what you claim? Ever?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I COULDN'T BE BOTHERED TO LOOK IT UP, I SAID, when the answer is just a question away. If no response, then I don't care.

You need to relax. Maybe it's demons?

In the very question I responded to you made the statement "stem from the fact that you're an atheist", so you claim to know he is an atheist and not know it. Much like you claim demons are substantial and also immaterial. I'm not sure what you know.