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Demons

PoetPhilosopher

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
Other threads on demons made me think a question, it's,

For those that believe in demons, where do you think they come from, or how do you think they come about?

All faiths can answer.
 
Eddi

Eddi

Believer in God
Premium Member
The traditional Christian line is that they are fallen angels but I don't believe this....

I believe they were manufactured by Satan to prey on those who are spiritually weak and to control people who are powerful on behalf of Satan, to make such people agents of Satan who serve to advance his plans

I don't believe they are sentient or have souls
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I would assume them to be uncreate beings and not like us; and since everything exists within God, they would have to be, too. We have a beginning through evolution, but they would have no such beginning and would be more like crystals or rocks. I would not even expect them to have eyes or ears. It is doubtful they could perceive us or we them.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Eddi said:
The traditional Christian line is that they are fallen angels but I don't believe this....

I believe they were manufactured by Satan to prey on those who are spiritually weak and to control people who are powerful on behalf of Satan, to make such people agents of Satan who serve to advance his plans

I don't believe they are sentient or have souls
Click to expand...

Demons that Jesus cast out of people did speak to Jesus and knew who He was etc.
 
Brian2

Brian2

Veteran Member
Brickjectivity said:
I would assume them to be uncreate beings and not like us; and since everything exists within God, they would have to be, too. We have a beginning through evolution, but they would have no such beginning and would be more like crystals or rocks. I would not even expect them to have eyes or ears. It is doubtful they could perceive us or we them.
Click to expand...

Demons that Jesus cast out of people did speak to Jesus and knew who He was etc.
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Brian2 said:
Demons that Jesus cast out of people did speak to Jesus and knew who He was etc.
Click to expand...
I'll share how I think this story about demons is actually about adoption of us Christians, and it relates to the parable of the Prodigal Son and to our own adoption as sons of Abraham. We are prodigals returning to a Father. We are impure having wasted our inheritance and returning with nothing, and the gospels warn against treating us as foreigners.

Luke 8:29 specifies that this possession (which Matthew refers to as a demon) is an 'Impure spirit'. Impurity refers to something which causes a person to be like the nations and cut off from Israel, so this man who is possessed is like the prodigal son. He, like the prodigal son, is impure but his impurity is taken away just as the prodigal son's impurity is and just as ours is.

It is significant that Luke specifies this is an impure spirit. 'Spirit' is English but comes from Greek 'Pneuma' which is similar to the Hebrew for breath 'Nephesh' (I meant to say 'Ruach' which is the ancient Hebrew for breath). These are words used to describe psychological things such as thinking. Breath is a way of thinking or a soul or a mindset. In the Law of Moses you have to have have a circumcised heart. An impure spirit is referring to the opposite, hence the gospels are dealing with the idea of doing everything right physically keeping the law but having the wrong heart. That is the possession they are talking about.

They actually are also saying that having a right heart is the point, and I know this because Jesus points out that all of the law can be summed up as "Love the LORD and love your neighbor as yourself." He also says "The letter kills but the spirit gives life." Always with Jesus being righteous is about having the right spirit, right thought, right heart, and frequently the temple is the object of his criticism.

The possessed man is supposed to represent those in Israel (or perhaps among Christians) who have a particular mindset that Jesus says is wrong. They are spiritually dead, and so the possessed man dwells among the graves. They also are judging others, who they think are like the Samaritans or who are like the Romans. Jesus would say to them to first take the log out of their eye before judging another. He would say to them to not judge, or they will be judged more. He would say that we are like like children who must be allowed and that the kingdom of God will have us in it. All of this works together with the general messages of the gospels. So for Jesus there are two kinds of impurity. There is the person who is impure, and there is the person who thinks he is better.

In the Law: impurity causes one to be cut off from Israel. In the gospel these demons of impurity are plural but the impure spirit is singular. A spirit is a way of thinking, and this way of thinking causes many impurities. Christians have to live by 'The spirit' which is the opposite of an impure spirit. The gospel is talking about our adoption into Israel and is talking about how some might object and that they shouldn't object. It is criticizing a big brother attitude against those not in Israel or not in our own group, we are considered to be the prodigal son or the big brother. We have spent our inheritance on impure things and come back to the Father with nothing, or we have done everything we are supposed to and don't like it when other people get equal respect. Now that impure spirit is driven away and so we are to be accepted. The big brother must accept us and remove the anger from his heart, the judgment that we have soiled ourselves and shouldn't be allowed into the family. That is what the gospel is saying.

So it is probably not talking about the demons in the OP. It is using them as an example but is not confirming whether they actually exist.
 
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Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
From my perspective as a Pagan, "demons" are entities - mostly from other religious traditions - the church decided to... well... demonize. They are nature spirits, fae, elementals, gods, ancestors... all the things the church deemed a threat to its cultural hegemony and wanted to stuff in some catch all "ew, it's evil, kill it" bucket. So in essence, "demons" are an invention of the church that more or less came about because of religious intolerance and religious exclusivism.

For those that don't want to be married to the origins of the term in Western culture, some have taken to rebranding "demons" in various ways. Some Pagans use the term in its original sense, spelled daemon not demon, but this has such a different meaning than feels disingenuous to discuss daemons as if they are at all the same concept as demons. A more apt comparison is when some Pagans interpret "demon" to simply mean an adversarial entity. I occasionally do this myself, where that map is useful.

In any case "demons" came from the same place everything did - they're inherent properties of reality/universe as far as I'm concerned. There's so much heterogeneity in what the church has demonized not sure what to say beyond that. As a general rule, I don't care about origin stories beyond it informing me about the character I'm dealing with. Put another way, I don't care what night your parents had sex and you were birthed into the world, I care that you are here now and I can talk to you and have interactions with you.
 
Michael1926

Michael1926

Member
Snow White said:
Other threads on demons made me think a question, it's,

For those that believe in demons, where do you think they come from, or how do you think they come about?

All faiths can answer.
Click to expand...
In Jewish tradition we learn that demons are basically entities which G-d also created during the six days of creation. We learn that of the four elements, demons are made up of fire and air.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Snow White said:
Other threads on demons made me think a question, it's,

For those that believe in demons, where do you think they come from, or how do you think they come about?

All faiths can answer.
Click to expand...

Same place that gods come from. Creations of the subconscious mind.
 
Saint Frankenstein

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Snow White said:
Other threads on demons made me think a question, it's,

For those that believe in demons, where do you think they come from, or how do you think they come about?

All faiths can answer.
Click to expand...
They're fallen angels who rebelled against God out of hubris and have declared war on God and humanity. Regardless of where they come from, they're evil, malicious non-physical beings that hate God and hate humans. They can possess humans and make them commit horrible crimes, as well as tempt with temporal pleasures and ego gratification. The latter is a trap to degrade your spiritual state, which can get so depraved that you open yourself to possession.
 
Patrick66

Patrick66

Member
The Bible doesn't tell us. I believe demons are the spirits of the Nephilim. The Nephilim were the offspring of unholy mating between human women and "fallen" angels. Angels have the ability to transform themselves into a physical being wherein demons do not and so they desire to physically possess people, or at least that is my understanding.
 
Schwarzweg

Schwarzweg

Ullr, Nebet-Het,Wendigowak
Snow White said:
Other threads on demons made me think a question, it's,

For those that believe in demons, where do you think they come from, or how do you think they come about?

All faiths can answer.
Click to expand...
Meine Antwort würde auf einer subjektiven Erfahrung beruhen und daher weiß ich auch NICHT
ob das allgemein für ALLE Dämonen gelten würde. Ich halte mich lieber zurück .
Aus einem Buch eine Stelle über Dämonen diskutieren oder schreiben o.k. ,
aber an sie GLAUBEN ?
Einfach nur religiös bedingt oder eine Erfahrung mit ihnen gemacht ?
Da stört mich immer das Wort GLAUBEN
Einfach nur so oder aus faktischer subjektiver Erfahrung ???
Für mich gilt : Subjektive Erfahrung = Fakt = Glaube für MICH und richtig für MICH
Weitere Meinungen mögen hier folgen !!!
LG
 
Schwarzweg

Schwarzweg

Ullr, Nebet-Het,Wendigowak
syo said:
They are godlings.
Click to expand...
Ja ..............................................
Alles hat auch DA wohl 2 Seiten
Ob es nun Götter oder Dämonen sind ...............
Wir splitten das gerne, obwohl es nur EINE Wesenheit ist , aber mit sehr vielen Namen ,
und obs davon viele gibt ?
DEN Gott gibt es für MICH jedenfalls NICHT
Mag jeder anders sehen ................
 
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