Deniars of Evolution:

[Riverwolf]

"Many many generations". Of course, that is the evolutionist's escape goat. They have to provide a explanation of why we don't see the changes occur before our very eyes...and their answer is always "because it takes sooooooo long to occur...millions and millions and millions and millions of years."

It can also happen so rapidly that it occurs within a few years. It's why you need to get vaccinated every year.

If you accept the need for vaccination, you accept evolution. If you believe in breeding programs, you accept evolution.

 

[NewGuyOnTheBlock]

"Many many generations". Of course, that is the evolutionist's escape goat. They have to provide a explanation of why we don't see the changes occur before our very eyes...and their answer is always "because it takes sooooooo long to occur...millions and millions and millions and millions of years."

All part of Satans plot to get people to believe in lies.

Now, where did you get millions and millions and millions and millions of years from the statement "many many generations?"

Evolution happens before our very eyes, observable in one lifetime.

[youtube]LBv6-XORcLg[/youtube]
Richard Dawkins - Evolution Before Our Every Eyes - Lizards of Pod Mrcaru - YouTube
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Lizards in an Evolutionary Tree - YouTube

 

[idav]

Well yes. Knowledge is really little more than a perception that we label and identify. That knowledge changes with greater and greater perceptive awareness, through whatever evolved means. The knowledge of the world to a worm is consistent with its perceptions it has access to. The knowledge of the world to humans is considerably more complex because of expanded awareness through not only our tools we use, but because of the abilities of our brains. But it is still relative to our perceptions, which are also far from complete.

I find starting with human perception and considering that intelligence and limiting intelligence to that mode of perception is little different than a geocentric model of the universe with us as the hub and all spokes radiating out from humans at the center of God's creation. It's still doing the same thing, except with scientific language instead of mythic language. Everything is intelligent in that it interacts with its environment, in agency. The problem with the typical Intelligent Design models, are that they are just a fancy cloak from the mythic deity symbol, with a fully aware superhuman-like mentality. In reality, intelligence has little do with a certain narrowly defined set of mental modeling.

I agree, good way of putting it. Design might be the word throwing the weird stigma. More like building and rebuilding till it works without using blueprints. Design implies complex things needing an engineer that planned out these flawed bodies.

 

[Mycroft]

I don't know.

Ok. Good answer.

Have you ever noticed that you have to adopt a certain sitting position to take a poo? You can't sit back on the bowl, cause that causes your anus to contract, you can't do it standing up because of the same reason. So you always have to sit on the toilet bowl hunched forward. Why do you think that might be?

 

[Thief]

It can also happen so rapidly that it occurs within a few years. It's why you need to get vaccinated every year.

If you accept the need for vaccination, you accept evolution. If you believe in breeding programs, you accept evolution.

Not sure of that logic.

I believe in evolution.
I don't believe in vaccination.

I realize I am at risk of illness when not participating the annual flu shot.
I also realize the immune system is delicate and needs to evolve on it's own.

That means I might (and likely will) die.

 

[ScuzManiac]

"Many many generations". Of course, that is the evolutionist's escape goat. They have to provide a explanation of why we don't see the changes occur before our very eyes...and their answer is always "because it takes sooooooo long to occur...millions and millions and millions and millions of years."

All part of Satans plot to get people to believe in lies.

Assuming you are under 60 years old...

Rub the back of your head. Feel that knot?

Now, go rub the head of someone 30 years older than you...

It's most likely flat. WOW!

It didn't take millions of years...

:no:

 

[Mycroft]

All part of Satans plot to get people to believe in lies.

You mean Lucifer? He's practically a hero in the Bible.

 

[Father Heathen]

"Many many generations". Of course, that is the evolutionist's escape goat. They have to provide a explanation of why we don't see the changes occur before our very eyes...and their answer is always "because it takes sooooooo long to occur...millions and millions and millions and millions of years."

All part of Satans plot to get people to believe in lies.

"If things don't happen instantaneously, they don't happen at all. H'yuk, h'uk."

By your logic The Grand Canyon shouldn't exist.

If there is a god, and he gave you a brain, wouldn't your refusal to use it be considered blasphemy?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

"If things don't happen instantianously, they don't happen at all. H'yuk, h'uk."

By your logic The Grand Canyon shouldn't exist.

No, the Grand Canyon was carved out in a matter of days during the Great Flood. Duh.

If there is a god, and he gave you a brain, wouldn't your refusal to use it be considered blasphemy?

Not all brains are created equal.

 

[Riverwolf]

Not sure of that logic.

I believe in evolution.
I don't believe in vaccination.

I realize I am at risk of illness when not participating the annual flu shot.
I also realize the immune system is delicate and needs to evolve on it's own.

That means I might (and likely will) die.

You accept the effects of vaccination to be real. That's what I was talking about.

 

[Thief]

You accept the effects of vaccination to be real. That's what I was talking about.

You spoke of it as a need.

It is not.

 

[John Martin]

[FONT=&quot]Evolutionism is a science and it should be taught as a science. It belongs to one level of truth. It should not be used to defame religions or eliminate God and create a godless or meaningless society. Creationism is not a science. It is poetry. It is a parable. It is a story. It tries to give meaning to our lives. It tries to create a meaningful society and meaningful human existence and relationships, even though this meaning might change as human beings evolve. Hence it should be taught as such and not as a science. Creationism should be not used to negate scientific discoveries and keep people in ignorance and in superstition. Evolutionism and creationism belong to different levels and communicate different truths. One belongs to the mind and another belongs to the heart. There should be no conflict as such between them. We need both. In order to create harmony between them both creationists and evolutionists need to have an open mind and open-heart. This is possible only when we transcend both evolutionism and creationism and discover the eternal divine spark, the image and likeness of God, within us, which was there before the big bang began.[/FONT]

 

[Bunyip]

[FONT=&quot]Evolutionism is a science and it should be taught as a science. It belongs to one level of truth.

No. Evolutionism is an imaginary invention. There is no such thing as an 'evolutionist', it is just a term applied to people who accept evolution to infer that they are doing so out of faith.

It should not be used to defame religions or eliminate God and create a godless or meaningless society. Creationism is not a science. It is poetry. It is a parable. It is a story. It tries to give meaning to our lives. It tries to create a meaningful society and meaningful human existence and relationships, even though this meaning might change as human beings evolve. Hence it should be taught as such and not as a science. Creationism should be not used to negate scientific discoveries and keep people in ignorance and in superstition. Evolutionism and creationism belong to different levels and communicate different truths. One belongs to the mind and another belongs to the heart. There should be no conflict as such between them. We need both. In order to create harmony between them both creationists and evolutionists need to have an open mind and open-heart. This is possible only when we transcend both evolutionism and creationism and discover the eternal divine spark, the image and likeness of God, within us, which was there before the big bang began.[/FONT]

On that I disagree completely, creationism teaches false truths. Creationism absolutely conflicts with the evidence. We should not have an open mind and an open heart to patently false claims that conflict with reality.

 

[Ouroboros]

Evolutionism is a science and it should be taught as a science.

Sorry for being a stickler but "evolutionism" isn't a science. Evolution, however, is a science. Evolutionism isn't a term that's used in scientific circles.

 

[Windwalker]

Evolutionism is a science and it should be taught as a science. It belongs to one level of truth. It should not be used to defame religions or eliminate God and create a godless or meaningless society.

As much as our views always parallel each other nicely, I'll have to agree with others on this to help clarify in your mind the use of these terms. Evolution by no means whatsoever is an "ism", which are philosophical systems. Evolution is not a philosophical system. It's a scientific theory. It is a word used by anti-evolutionary, anti-science people as a defamatory word trying to make it not scientific, but rather a philosophical viewpoint instead. That of course is absolutely false, it's not a belief system, not an "ism". What you should say instead is that Evolution is scientific and therefore should be taught as science. It should be, because it is science.

Creationism is not a science. It is poetry. It is a parable. It is a story.

And again here, this is not accurate either. Stories of creation with deities giving birth to the world are exactly as you say, poetry, parable, myth, metaphor, and so forth. But Creationism is not these. Not at all. What Creationism is is in fact misappropriating poetry and metaphor and trying to force-fit it into scientific terms and thus destroying its value as myth, as well as destroying the power of science by teaching a pseudoscience as factual.

Creationism is correctly understood as false-science. It can also be correctly understood as false religion because it attempts to make God an object of scientific study, to 'prove' myth as fact. The second that is going on, the entire power of myth collapses and falls like a heap to the ground.

What you mean to say is not Creationism, but creation myths give meaning to our lives. With the latter I completely agree. The former only gives misinformation as it pretends, or lies to people that it is scientific when it's not. What needs to happen is to drop Creationism as an "ism" altogether, which it currently is which is a philosophical viewpoint that scripture can be viewed and understood as scientific in nature. It needs to rightly be instead, poetic and thus true on that level. The problem with Creationists, those who make scripture a pseudoscience, is they are neither truly religious, nor truly scientific. They have no value on either level. They are stuck on the elevator between floors.

One belongs to the mind and another belongs to the heart. There should be no conflict as such between them. We need both.

When the above are correctly understood as Science and Religion, I fully agree. But they need to be true to what they are and not attempt to be something they are not. Science should never be Scientism. And creation myths should never be Creationism. Both fail then.

In order to create harmony between them both creationists and evolutionists need to have an open mind and open-heart.

Clarifying terminologies help to rid stumbling blocks to this first. But I fully agree that everyone needs to have an open mind and heart. True religion, or true science can never occur without that.

This is possible only when we transcend both evolutionism and creationism and discover the eternal divine spark, the image and likeness of God, within us, which was there before the big bang began.

I agree.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ok. Good answer.

Have you ever noticed that you have to adopt a certain sitting position to take a poo? You can't sit back on the bowl, cause that causes your anus to contract, you can't do it standing up because of the same reason. So you always have to sit on the toilet bowl hunched forward. Why do you think that might be?

Actually plenty of cultures squat instead of sit. It's even supposedly better to squat than sit.

 

[Riverwolf]

You spoke of it as a need.

It is not.

Distracting nitpick.

But if you must have clarification, the "need" was used with the extended implication of "you need vaccination if you don't want to risk getting sick."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ok. Good answer.

Have you ever noticed that you have to adopt a certain sitting position to take a poo? You can't sit back on the bowl, cause that causes your anus to contract, you can't do it standing up because of the same reason. So you always have to sit on the toilet bowl hunched forward. Why do you think that might be?

Actually plenty of cultures squat instead of sit. It's even supposedly better to squat than sit.

Also, just about any infant/toddler I have known will occasionally defecate while standing.