Designing a Peaceful, Coherent, Non-Coercive Society

[drsatish]

A peaceful, coherent, or non-coercive can't be designed. Hell, it is debatable if it can even exist.

"Hell, it is debatable if it can even exist."

How about debating on that?

Satish

 

[Wombat]

Can we come up with 2010-Top-21-Guidelines ..effective till 3010?

Ok....Guideline 1 of 21-
-
We are ONE people. We live on One planet.

All lables and concepts that seek or serve to divide us (wether by race, nationality, politics or religion) also serve to endanger us.

Designing a Peaceful, Coherent, Non-Coercive Society

Starts with the recognition that we are interdependent humanity...all subsequent divisions are artificial constructs.

[youtube]sOR5VvbGNds[/youtube]
YouTube - Geoffrey Gurrumul Yunupingu - "Gurrumul History (I Was Born Blind)

 

[blackout]

You will have to first rid the world of all non-peaceful, manipulative, and coercive people.

From the highest power seats and thrones,
to your mother in law, your neighbor, and maybe even your own Self.

That's a mighty big job.

 

[drsatish]

Ok....Guideline 1 of 21-
-
We are ONE people. We live on One planet.

All lables and concepts that seek or serve to divide us (wether by race, nationality, politics or religion) also serve to endanger us.



Starts with the recognition that we are interdependent humanity...all subsequent divisions are artificial constructs.

[youtube]sOR5VvbGNds[/youtube]
YouTube - Geoffrey Gurrumul Yunupingu - "Gurrumul History (I Was Born Blind)

Agreed!
Slot for Guideline No 01 Filled!

Auction! Auction! Only 20 left! Hurry! Hurry! before stock gets over!

Satish

 

[drsatish]

You will have to first rid the world of all non-peaceful, manipulative, and coercive people.

From the highest power seats and thrones,
to your mother in law, your neighbor, and maybe even your own Self.

That's a mighty big job.

Is it Mighty Bigger than
picking up millions of selected atoms with tweezers,
putting glue on one side,
joining them this way...and that way...

..wave a magic wand

& See the Earth from the Moon?
Satish

 

[Zadok]

You will have to first rid the world of all non-peaceful, manipulative, and coercive people.

From the highest power seats and thrones,
to your mother in law, your neighbor, and maybe even your own Self.

That's a mighty big job.

It is the nature of non-peaceful, manipulative and coercive people to believe that anyone that does not agree with them are the non-peaceful, manipulative and coercive people that must be done away with before there can be a peaceful, coherent, non-coercive society.

Zadok

 

[blackout]

It is the nature of non-peaceful, manipulative and coercive people to believe that anyone that does not agree with them are the non-peaceful, manipulative and coercive people that must be done away with before there can be a peaceful, coherent, non-coercive society.

Zadok

It doesn't matter who they are.

Delusional people, liars, power mongers, zealots...
people with their own agendas, whatever...
my statement still stands,
If you want a peaceful, non-manipulative and non-coercive society
all of the the non-peaceful, manipulative, coercive people
will have to be gone. MIA. not there. (hint: It won't happen)

 

[Reptillian]

There are three things that are needed for a utopia:
1. Education
without education people will not know how to reason/think critically or have the information necessary to succeed
2. Enlightenment
without the social freedom to follow their own reason and wisdom, individuals cannot thrive...citizens must have the power to make use of their education and to act as informed individuals
3. Ethics
without a value system in place, in particular one which emphasizes the importance of reason/education/good, the other two necessities will become obsolete

The founders of the United States for example, knew that individual freedom to follow ones own understanding was extremely important. However, without a society that values ethics/education, we have become ignorant and have used our freedom poorly.

 

[drsatish]

There are three things that are needed for a utopia:
1. Education
without education people will not know how to reason/think critically or have the information necessary to succeed
2. Enlightenment
without the social freedom to follow their own reason and wisdom, individuals cannot thrive...citizens must have the power to make use of their education and to act as informed individuals
3. Ethics
without a value system in place, in particular one which emphasizes the importance of reason/education/good, the other two necessities will become obsolete

The founders of the United States for example, knew that individual freedom to follow ones own understanding was extremely important. However, without a society that values ethics/education, we have become ignorant and have used our freedom poorly.

[FONT=&quot]"without a value system in place"[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I think we should try to evolve a Basic Universal Human Value system, which prioritises material needs and non-material needs (eg. love, absence of fear etc) for 'a human anywhere.' [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]eg.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. Clean Air[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. Clean, non-infectious, non-toxic drinking water.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. Adequate, almost free availability of Carbohydrates, Proteins, Fats, Minerals, Vitamins etc in the correct proportions at next to nothing costs.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4. Health Care.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5. Roof over the head : Simple & cost-effective.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6. Communication facilities for Dynamic Interaction with other humans on earth[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] a) Internet (cheap handheld devices will do) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] b) TV (cheap B/W sets will do)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7. Opportunities for growth of the 'inner self', for those so inclined.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8. etc[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]ETHICS will be [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. To assure that the above are not violated by another human[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]and[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. To actively help in "reaching the above" to other humans.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]and[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. All Killing Devices to be dismantled and made 'totally illegal.'[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Politicians can be replaced by incorruptible Computers![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]EDUCATION should be focussed on:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. Behavior, tolerance and respect for other humans.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. Manipulating nature WISELY through Science.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. Exploring and Realizing the Inner Self - which will reduce selfishness and hatred and bring about an understanding of the commonality in all of humans and life forms.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]...something like that....[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Satish[/FONT]

 

[Falvlun]

How the heck would you enforce all that? We'd basically be in a totalitarian state, only with black and white TVs.

 

[drsatish]

How the heck would you enforce all that? We'd basically be in a totalitarian state, only with black and white TVs.

[FONT=&quot]Well, we are not drafting a Next-5-Year plan....we got time (2010 to 3010..!)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Can it be achieved in 100 years? Possible. If 6 billion minds work on it.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Enforce?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We have replaced the Politician with Computers...remember?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]With NO LEADER AROUND.....No totalitarian state.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Enforcement..comes voluntarily...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ....once the current trend of 'selfishness & greed'[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ...is replaced by a 'broader identity with all humans and life forms'[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] .....by experiencing the 'inner-self' ..gradually...one step at a time ..to greater depths[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ....and you find such people in your everyday surroundings..[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ....contented people, living their daily life, going about their daily work...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ....seeing other humans....As ..Humans...live, real...like oneself...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ...Not trying to beat the clock ...as if D-Day IS 2012 or 2021![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ...when Seeing & Experiencing Nature..in Real 5-D (5 senses)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] will be More Real than 2-D/3-D Samsung LED 10 foot x 10 foot Color Imitation...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] (Think of a Waterfall - the roar, the water droplets hitting your face, wetting your clothes..[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] in Samsung..!!)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Why FAKE Reality?......and Value FAKING ABOVE Anything Else?)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Let us lead 'Simple, Happy, technology-wisely-used lives..'[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]If one drives and is driven by "Lamborghini" as the Ultimate form of Human Existence[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.car-catalog.com/sports_cars/lamborghini_gallardo.htm[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]after exploring and experiencing the Inner-Self, he will see/know that they are not That Much Different from[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.hotwheels.com/cars[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"Boy remains the same - only the Scale gets Bigger!"[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"Girl remains the same - only the Atomic Weights get Bigger!"[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]http://www.royaljewellerystudio.com/[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.toyconnection.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=TC&Category_Code=N1[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]....likewise for many ..most things...of ..modernity![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Gold, gold...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.goldingot.org.uk/[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.jewellerydesigns.cn/[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackenna's_Gold[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ...do you think just-a-metal of yellow color....is REALLY More Valuable than Humans / Human Lives?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Sort of....Greed Reversed is Enlightenment..![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Satish[/FONT]

 

[Wombat]

[FONT=&quot]"[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1. Clean Air [/FONT][FONT=&quot]2. Clean, non-infectious, non-toxic drinking water....(snip) to...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8. etc [/FONT]

OK...I'll go with that.
But.....It immediately raises the issue of ‘Governance’- local, regional, international. And if you and I want our (even cheap TV and Internet) there is ¼-1/2 the worlds population that wants the job making them for us so that they may have a refrigerator to keep the clean water in. That takes energy and my country supplies that cheaply in coal...that coal fouls your air/our planet.

From my perspective the issues of Governance become ovelapping issues of environment, science, social justice, community and spirituality.

[FONT=&quot]1. To assure that the above are not violated by another human[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]and[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. To actively help in "reaching the above" to other humans.[/FONT]

That "assuring" may well require some 'muscle'/governance to back it up.

[FONT=&quot]

3. All Killing Devices to be dismantled and made 'totally illegal.'.

[/FONT]

Swords to plough shears? Ok...I’m for that. But I’m also pragmatic enough to recognise there will still be mad dangerous b@$tards in the world (local, regional, international) that will require restraint by armed forces (police/military). Back to governance. What are the best methods of maintaining such forces/governance with least risk of abuse?

[FONT=&quot]

Politicians can be replaced by incorruptible Computers!.

[/FONT]

Funny....but from me that's a "NO"!!!

Why not start with "Politicians can be replaced" and work our way forward from there?:yes:

It took humanity a while to mature past the concept of 'The Divine Right of Kings'... but we eventually got there. Now we need to devise systems of governance to replace politicians...because they clearly no longer serve our needs and because viable alternatives are available.

[FONT=&quot]1. Behavior, tolerance and respect for other humans.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. Manipulating nature WISELY through Science.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. Exploring and Realizing the Inner Self - which will reduce selfishness and hatred and bring about an understanding of the commonality in all of humans and life forms..[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]You would get on well in the school I work in drsatish[/FONT]

As I understand it the Public School System in the US was not established with an emphasis on the needs- Reading, Writing, Arithmetic but rather on the recognition of the need to inculcate ‘values’- trust, cooperation, mutual respect. ........Perhaps something got lost along the way in all our schools?

I like the direction of your posts and thinking.

All the best.

 

[PolyHedral]

[FONT=&quot]We have replaced the Politician with Computers...remember?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]With NO LEADER AROUND.....No totalitarian state.[/FONT]

The Computer is your friend. Trust the Computer.

But what about the programmer?

 

[drsatish]

The Computer is your friend. Trust the Computer.

But what about the programmer?

[FONT=&quot]Programmer....?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]In 2010, there are Coders, System Analysts, Project Managers, CEOs...[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]......WHO do you Mean EXACTLY?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ....Is it the CEO.....influenced by the [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ....the White House..[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ...the Green Bank...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ..the Red Robe....?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] ..or even the Top-Secret-Swiss-Bank-Personal Account?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]well, you have EVERY Right to be CONCERNED![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Perhaps, something in the lines of ancient Greek thought...may offer some possibilities...[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Solutions:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1. Programmers (including group leaders) for Programming "Politician Substitute Entity"....will be selected from the 'Top Most Cream' of All Programmers on Earth![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2. The rewards for this group will be in totally Non-Monetary/Power Gain basis...the Only Reward...will be the Name they get for being in this.......'esteemed' group.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]3. Those Mega Brains with little or no bondage to Family or Money or Success....will be SELECTED for this group.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]..something in a distant vibration of ancient Greek thought...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"by proposing a city ruled by philosopher-kings."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Republic_(Plato)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]..my personal picture of that ancient Greek thought will be something like this..[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]...a group of wise..extremely wise...wiser than 95% of the population of that area..draped in (white robes?) ...age no bar...sex no bar...[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]...getting the basic essentials from the ..state...that area...Nothing More![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]...pooling their brains together..for deciding what is BEST..for that area..[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]What do they get?.....not a Single Penny...more than [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Basic Normal Amenities + Just Plain MEGA RESPECT from the populace!...[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]by proposing a city ruled by philosopher-kings[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]by proposing a city ruled by programmer-kings[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Nay![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]by proposing a city ruled by programmers-CODING-the-Wise-Detached![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Nay![/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]by proposing a city CO-ORDINATED by programmers-CODING-the-Wise-Detached![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Tell me WHO ISN't a Programmer?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot](You got plans for tomorrow?)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Satish[/FONT]

 

[drsatish]

OK...I'll go with that.
But.....It immediately raises the issue of ‘Governance’- local, regional, international. And if you and I want our (even cheap TV and Internet) there is ¼-1/2 the worlds population that wants the job making them for us so that they may have a refrigerator to keep the clean water in. That takes energy and my country supplies that cheaply in coal...that coal fouls your air/our planet.

From my perspective the issues of Governance become ovelapping issues of environment, science, social justice, community and spirituality.



That "assuring" may well require some 'muscle'/governance to back it up.



Swords to plough shears? Ok...I’m for that. But I’m also pragmatic enough to recognise there will still be mad dangerous b@$tards in the world (local, regional, international) that will require restraint by armed forces (police/military). Back to governance. What are the best methods of maintaining such forces/governance with least risk of abuse?



Funny....but from me that's a "NO"!!!

Why not start with "Politicians can be replaced" and work our way forward from there?:yes:

It took humanity a while to mature past the concept of 'The Divine Right of Kings'... but we eventually got there. Now we need to devise systems of governance to replace politicians...because they clearly no longer serve our needs and because viable alternatives are available.



[FONT=&quot]You would get on well in the school I work in drsatish[/FONT]

As I understand it the Public School System in the US was not established with an emphasis on the needs- Reading, Writing, Arithmetic but rather on the recognition of the need to inculcate ‘values’- trust, cooperation, mutual respect. ........Perhaps something got lost along the way in all our schools?

I like the direction of your posts and thinking.

All the best.

Tx.

"Politicians can be replaced" and work our way forward from there? ... viable alternatives are available."

What would be your suggestions?

 

[Wombat]

Tx.

"Politicians can be replaced" and work our way forward from there? ... viable alternatives are available."

What would be your suggestions?

Answering in haste (Going camping for a week:run

A return to a system in which people elect community members they actualy know... no parties, no professional politicians, no nominations, no media between the electors and the elected, open slather- the entire local community to choose from- vote for the 'nicest' people you can identify. Those elected are then empowered to select the most 'capable' to administer particular functions. (The objective is to get Granny/the retired Postie/the single mum charity worker- elected to 'power' and they then appoint the Lawyers/accountants/academics to positions of responsibility).
Motivation/theory base?...The community has enough common sense, grass roots knowledge to identify and empower the nicest/most trustworthy community members.( I personaly trust Granny more than they lawyer...but the community may see it otherwise).

Having elected the nicest/best/most trustworthy/spiritual(?) people at the local level they are then entrusted to do likewise electing regional reps...and so on...up the line- Satate, National, International...with the objective of electing the best of the best each time. No nominations, no parties, no lobbying, no media campaigns, no money, far fewer points of oportunity for blocks, pressure groups, corruption.

That's a brief outline...let me know what you think when you think of your local community...are there people you believe stand out as fundamentaly nice...and one of the nice things about them is that they would never join a political party or stand for election....but if asked/elected would (duty bound) seek to serve?