• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Desire, attachment, obsession, etc. please explain

agorman

Active Member
Premium Member
Maybe someone can clarify me what's really called "attachment"? I still don't understand if Buddhism encourages getting rid of desires or teaches to accept desires but avoiding obsessions. I mean, for example, having sex is not bad, drinking a little is not bad, but if you live just to have sex and drink 1 liter of Vodka per day, you have a problem! Because the problem is self-esteem; you'd be destroying yourself because you either feel guilty or feel you're of no value. Well, sex may not "destroy" yourself; but if someday you want to do something else than sex and you can't, then you may experience lots of orgasms but you're not really happy. :D Is that the Buddhist view? e.g. in Pure Land Buddhism?

Maybe this has been addressed before; If that's the case I'd like you to please point me to the right thread so I can remove this one (or the moderator does it). Thank you!
 

Contemplative Cat

energy formation
Attachment leads to desire, desire when thwarted leads inevitably to anger, greed, or lust.
Anger greed and lust only arise due to ignorance of the true nature of existence, so are emotions fit for rejection.
In yoga, attachments create separations and divisions, mine/yours. We are a whole organism, but one cell in the organism because of attachmnt will take away from the efficiency of the whole. Its cancer.

From a Buddhist standpoint , attachments lead to desire which cause negative emotions they create suffering, new karma, and causes the mindstream(the me thoughts) to strengthen into further relative existence.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
Have you read Dhammapada 16?

One of the three marks of existence is impermanence. If you become attached to something impermanent, you will experience grief when it ceases to be.
 

agorman

Active Member
Premium Member
Have you read Dhammapada 16?

One of the three marks of existence is impermanence. If you become attached to something impermanent, you will experience grief when it ceases to be.

I've read the Dhammapada a long time ago, but I thought it was mainly for monks.

Anyway, how can you live thinking that everything you enjoy will disappear? Enjoy while it lasts?
 

Ablaze

Buddham Saranam Gacchami
I've read the Dhammapada a long time ago, but I thought it was mainly for monks.

Anyway, how can you live thinking that everything you enjoy will disappear? Enjoy while it lasts?

I've found these words of the Buddha to be profoundly true in my own life:

aniccā vata saṅkhārā,
uppādavayadhammino.
uppajjitvā nirujjhanti,
tesaṃ vūpasamo sukho.


All things are impermanent,
They arise and they pass away.
To be in harmony with this truth,
Brings great happiness.
 

Ablaze

Buddham Saranam Gacchami
Maybe someone can clarify me what's really called "attachment"? I still don't understand if Buddhism encourages getting rid of desires or teaches to accept desires but avoiding obsessions. I mean, for example, having sex is not bad, drinking a little is not bad, but if you live just to have sex and drink 1 liter of Vodka per day, you have a problem! Because the problem is self-esteem; you'd be destroying yourself because you either feel guilty or feel you're of no value. Well, sex may not "destroy" yourself; but if someday you want to do something else than sex and you can't, then you may experience lots of orgasms but you're not really happy. :D Is that the Buddhist view? e.g. in Pure Land Buddhism?

Maybe this has been addressed before; If that's the case I'd like you to please point me to the right thread so I can remove this one (or the moderator does it). Thank you!

Attachment is how we relate to experiences. Pleasure in and of itself is not the problem. When we become dependent on it, cling to it, and grasp at it - exploiting it for our own gains at the expense of harming others - that is when we suffer.
 

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala
I've read the Dhammapada a long time ago, but I thought it was mainly for monks.

Anyway, how can you live thinking that everything you enjoy will disappear? Enjoy while it lasts?

Because we're convinced that what we enjoy brings happiness due to ignorance of it's impermanence, when in fact, it doesn't bring real enjoyment or happiness at all.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Attachment is any occurring reaction in regards to the experience of undergoing consistent change or the anticipation of change that causes a person to dwell on the nuances of it. Primarily those causing unpleasant sensations, although pleasant sensations apply equally as well in bringing out attachments as they occur.
 
I dunno. :D

Mine is an interesting perspective here, because I am someone who has called himself a Buddhist in the past and who practiced sincerely for 2 years.

...but at present I am having what could be described as a crisis in faith in the Buddhist Dharma.

We are humans; fallible and vulnerable. Buddhism teaches us that our true nature is a completely still mind; full of bliss. But if that is the case, why are we here, in this paradoxical situation?

Is this - the mess of our lives here is Samsara - not equally arguable as our true nature? ... why not?

Buddhism can be extremely complex, and grounded in intellectual theory; so it's arguably not universal and accessible to all. That's another issue I have with it.

A counter-argument to what Buddhism tells us about attachment and desire, could be that although fleeting, the joys of the samsara still feel real.

"It's better to have loved and lost, than to have never loved at all"

.......as someone once said.

I listened to some uplifting beautiful music this morning, and thought to myself "Buddhism probably wouldn't approve of the attachment and deep sensory joy I am experiencing here". It was fleeting.

....but it was beautiful.

Ultimately it comes back to that quote again; What is best; to reject material humanity and live in meditation, or to experience as many joys, excitement, fun, sadness and pain as possible, in the few years we have here.

I'm really not sure any more.
 
Last edited:

agorman

Active Member
Premium Member
Ultimately it comes back to that quote again; What is best; to reject material humanity and live in meditation, or to experience as many joys, excitement, fun, sadness and pain as possible, in the few years we have here. I'm really not sure any more.

Well your post seems to be the final confirmation that Buddhism is not my path.

I suspect the "true nature" is both a dynamic and not dynamic self. Or better said, a nature that can be dynamic or static. Notice that "dynamic and static" is another duality. So Urban Dharmic Warrior, I conclude that a dynamic state of well being (living in a paradise where all is love and play) is superior to a static one; although maybe our soul needs to stay in the permanent bliss of Brahman for of a couple of eons, maybe for a reason of purification or simply for not staying eternally in a state of dynamic well being.

Urban Dharmic Warrior maybe you should consider Gaudiya Vaishnavism? Or some other path that in the end leads to a paradisiacal world?
 

Contemplative Cat

energy formation
the static makes up the dynamic.
People can only learn or explain concepts, no one can teach you an experience.

The duality associated with the worldly vs meditative life
Is because we move way to fast, if we SLOW down in meditation we will see how the static voidness, is actually a dynamic energy.
Our nervous system feels distinctions.
Our eyes see distinction.
Our minds distinquish these qualities as separate.

If we close our senses its voidness. It is entirely possible to percieve the world as made of the void.
Then we can live a relative existence while not diminishing Realization.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
He. I think of paraphrasing my teacher by "experiencing attachment where it lays".

It is like kicking a sandcastle at high tide. Why the hell would I do that?
 

Ablaze

Buddham Saranam Gacchami
We are humans; fallible and vulnerable. Buddhism teaches us that our true nature is a completely still mind; full of bliss. But if that is the case, why are we here, in this paradoxical situation?

Is this - the mess of our lives here is Samsara - not equally arguable as our true nature? ... why not?

In Mahāyāna Buddhism, it is taught that Saṃsāra is Nirvāṇa and Nirvāṇa is Saṃsāra. Ultimately, both are our "true nature." In Zen, it is taught that the Ordinary Mind is the Way. In this Way, the mundane is sacred, the ordinary is extraordinary, and the silence is thunderous.

Buddhism can be extremely complex, and grounded in intellectual theory; so it's arguably not universal and accessible to all. That's another issue I have with it.

It can be, but it doesn't have to be. It is what each practitioner makes of it.

A counter-argument to what Buddhism tells us about attachment and desire, could be that although fleeting, the joys of the samsara still feel real.

The teachings of the Buddha do not deny this. They simply frame it otherwise. Although the joys of Saṃsāra may feel real, they are fleeting. To be wholeheartedly aware of this makes it profoundly less painful when such joys are gone. Rather than make joy dependent on external circumstances, the teachings of the Buddha illuminate the joy that has no conditions, an unconditioned joy.

I listened to some uplifting beautiful music this morning, and thought to myself "Buddhism probably wouldn't approve of the attachment and deep sensory joy I am experiencing here". It was fleeting.

....but it was beautiful.

"Buddhism" doesn't approve or disapprove of anything. When an action of body, speech, or mind is wholesome, it will bear wholesome fruits. If it is unwholesome, then unwholesome seeds are sown. Attachment and deep sensory joy may feel "good" in the moment, but the mind-states that often accompany them are typically characterized by clinging, grasping, craving and so on - ultimately leading to disappointment down the road.

Ultimately it comes back to that quote again; What is best; to reject material humanity and live in meditation, or to experience as many joys, excitement, fun, sadness and pain as possible, in the few years we have here.

I'm really not sure any more.

Meditation does not reject anything. Zen master Dogen taught that the ocean does not refuse any kind of water. Disenchantment, which is what the Buddha taught, is an entirely different matter than rejection. To become disenchanted means that we no longer depend on the outer world for amusement. It does not mean we block out sensory experience. Instead, we are no longer thrown about by the waves and can finally rest in an ocean of inconceivably imperturbable inner joy.
 

agorman

Active Member
Premium Member
Ablaze, the idea then is that if you always have inner joy then external joy will follow? Is that about "As above so below"?

Does Buddhism then teaches the same taoist concept that don't be sad today because you lost what made you happy, because you may be happy again tomorrow? I mean, due to the cyclical nature of all, if today it's yin, tomorrow may be yang?
 

Ablaze

Buddham Saranam Gacchami
Ablaze, the idea then is that if you always have inner joy then external joy will follow? Is that about "As above so below"?

Does Buddhism then teaches the same taoist concept that don't be sad today because you lost what made you happy, because you may be happy again tomorrow? I mean, due to the cyclical nature of all, if today it's yin, tomorrow may be yang?

When joy is derived from external sources, thus dependent on externalities, then it inevitably ends when those external conditions are gone. In other words, if one's sense of happiness and fulfillment is dependent on sense experience, it will have a clear beginning and end. When joy is dependent on the sun shining, then dissatisfaction will arise when it rains.

If we depend on a delicious meal for happiness, then once it's gone, we'll be left craving for more. What we don't have becomes a source of dissatisfaction. Even more so if we take a bite of something disgusting. We become attached to the pleasant and averse to the unpleasant.

If we depend on harmonious music for happiness, then once it's gone, we'll be left craving for more. What we don't have becomes a source of dissatisfaction. Even more so when the neighbors are making excessive noise in the middle of the night. We become attached to the pleasant and averse to the unpleasant.

If we depend on taking a walk through a beautiful garden or well-kept city park for happiness, then once it's gone, we'll be left craving for more. What we don't have becomes a source of dissatisfaction. Even more so when the land becomes polluted. We become attached to the pleasant and averse to the unpleasant.

There is nothing wrong with the positive end of these experiences. It's perfectly alright in Buddhism to appreciate a well-cooked meal, enjoy nice music, and delight in the natural world. It's absolutely natural to not enjoy unpleasant experiences. Our desire-based relationship to these experiences, however, is where unhealthy habits and expectations may manifest.

When we cling and grasp to external conditions, our joy becomes dependent and incomplete. We become addicted, always seeking the next best thing, attempting to control the outer world in order to make it conform to our liking. When we let go of this attachment, our joy becomes independent and unconditioned.

Inner joy is like a reservoir that can never be depleted, independent of conditions, always there whether rain or shine.
 
Last edited:

NobodyYouKnow

Misanthropist
I'm basically new at this...

When I was younger, I lived in a huge mansion with lots and lots of possessions and I was very happy...

Then, my family had to sell up and move to a smaller house and there was no room for all my things, so I had to 'downsize' and I was happy...

Then, I moved out into a 2 bedroom flat and had to downsize yet again...

Then, share accommodation with another person in a 3br house...

After that, I had one bedroom only and had to confine all my possessions in there...and I was happy...

Then, I moved out into a tiny caravan...

Then, back into a single bedroom...

Now, I do the 'rounds' of family and friend's couches and can only possess whatever I can carry, basically...

I'm like 'meh, such is fate' and I can no longer afford to be attached to things, because I may have to do the midnight bolt.
 
Last edited:

NobodyYouKnow

Misanthropist
In addition (why I'm running)...

We actually 'own' nothing in this world...nothing!

To think that anything is actually 'ours' is the biggest illusion there is.

How do I know this?

Just wait until a greedy utility company overcharges your energy bill by like $3,000 in one quarter and doesn't admit to any wrongdoing, besides not reading a meter which is out on the freaking road and easily accessible...then estimating your bill which is not based on any of your previous bills, because all your previous bills were 'wrong' and this is a 'catch-up bill' PLUS an estimated usage based on all this misinformation.

I took them to Trade Practices, I took them to court, and I lost. I was ordered to pay the full amount + court costs...I couldn't pay...

Then, the sheriff came and took most of 'my possessions' away, but I still owed greedy, selfish, uncaring companies thousands of dollars, or face a jail term...for their mistake...I am innocent.

So, lawyers and debt collectors are still after me and it won't be long before the cops are hunting me as well. I am a fugitive from 'justice'.

Whatever I get belongs to the government, or is merely 'on loan' from another person, but I knew (from past experience) that 'the powers that be' (Karma/whatever) doesn't want me to have any possessions, desires or attachments anyway, so why fight it? why try to hold water in my hands?
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend agorman,

Desire, attachment, obsession, etc. please explain

They are ALL related to the MIND.

Transcending that MIND is where the mind functions do not affect and so one is free in the true sense.

So find how to transcend the mind and everything will get revealed by its own accord.

Love & rgds
 
Top