Destiny

[Nerthus]

How many of you guys believe in destiny? I have was having a good conversation with some friends a few months ago about it and it seems that it is something we have either always believed in or not.

i am not the kind of person to belive in it. I think we make our own 'destiny' and whatever result we end up at, is because we worked to get there. I believe in coincidence, but not that it is planned for us.


Also if our lives are planned out, how would the idea of illness fit into it? Is illness also planned?

Is destiny more of a religious idea? That God has designed a path for us? Another idea that we are not in control of our lives.

 

[chinu]

How many of you guys believe in destiny? I have was having a good conversation with some friends a few months ago about it and it seems that it is something we have either always believed in or not.

i am not the kind of person to belive in it. I think we make our own 'destiny' and whatever result we end up at, is because we worked to get there. I believe in coincidence, but not that it is planned for us.


Also if our lives are planned out, how would the idea of illness fit into it? Is illness also planned?

Is destiny more of a religious idea? That God has designed a path for us? Another idea that we are not in control of our lives.

Or in some other words we can say: Our "Love" towards something has designed a path for us,

Or in some other words we can say: "Love" towards something has designed a path for us,

Jesus or all saints of the time said: "God is love, Love is god" and if it is so...

Than in some other words we can also say: "Love" or "God" has designed a path for us.

Than what is wrong in saying: "God" has designed a path for us ??? .



_/\_
Chinu

 

[Willamena]

How many of you guys believe in destiny? I have was having a good conversation with some friends a few months ago about it and it seems that it is something we have either always believed in or not.

i am not the kind of person to belive in it. I think we make our own 'destiny' and whatever result we end up at, is because we worked to get there. I believe in coincidence, but not that it is planned for us.

Everyone who believes in determinism, a "self," and the future automatically believes in destiny. Determinism has laid out a "plan" that they will, inevitably, follow.

Edit: I should add that your concept of a destiny we write ourselves is much more traditional, not to mention reasonable and pleasing. It springs from an image of 'now', the moment in which we live, with a recognition that destiny, and even the world, does not happen without us.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Destiny doesn't exist. It violates the uncertainty principle.

As for free will, it also doesn't exist. We are as much a slave to our preconditions as rocks, plants, animals, and subatomic particles. We're just being flung through chaos.

 

[Penumbra]

How many of you guys believe in destiny? I have was having a good conversation with some friends a few months ago about it and it seems that it is something we have either always believed in or not.

i am not the kind of person to belive in it. I think we make our own 'destiny' and whatever result we end up at, is because we worked to get there. I believe in coincidence, but not that it is planned for us.

Also if our lives are planned out, how would the idea of illness fit into it? Is illness also planned?

Is destiny more of a religious idea? That God has designed a path for us? Another idea that we are not in control of our lives.

When I was a kid I sort of believed in destiny. I think it had to do with pride, since when I was a kid I was always told I would do great things or that I was so good at stuff. So I naturally began to believe I was "special". I think it's related to the concept of how kids think they are invincible, or how bad stuff happens to other people but not them.

As a I grew older I dropped that belief. I don't see it making any sense. And taking illness as an example, if some positive destinies are planned out for people, it would imply that some negative destinies are planned for people, which is pretty messed up.

We are what we are.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Wait for something to happen to you. That was your destiny.

 

[elmarna]

Fatelisum is not likely to be something I can agree to.
It marks a life that is experiencing "a program" where nothing can stop the predeterminded set of circumstances from happening.
Since I believe living is about accountability & choices it tends to go against the fatalistic view of -you have no choice because it is allready maped out. like a pawn in a chess board.
the ways of destiny leaves you helpless & possibly feeling like a victum!
NO I DO NOT BELIEVE IN DESTINY!

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Fatelisum is not likely to be something I can agree to.
It marks a life that is experiencing "a program" where nothing can stop the predeterminded set of circumstances from happening.
Since I believe living is about accountability & choices it tends to go against the fatalistic view of -you have no choice because it is allready maped out. like a pawn in a chess board.
the ways of destiny leaves you helpless & possibly feeling like a victum!
NO I DO NOT BELIEVE IN DESTINY!

To play devil's advocate for a bit, you basically just said "It's doesn't exist because it violates my perception of justice". That's not evidence. That's whining about the world not being fair.

 

[Koldo]

How many of you guys believe in destiny? I have was having a good conversation with some friends a few months ago about it and it seems that it is something we have either always believed in or not.

i am not the kind of person to belive in it. I think we make our own 'destiny' and whatever result we end up at, is because we worked to get there. I believe in coincidence, but not that it is planned for us.


Also if our lives are planned out, how would the idea of illness fit into it? Is illness also planned?

Is destiny more of a religious idea? That God has designed a path for us? Another idea that we are not in control of our lives.

I believe we do "make" our destiny, and also that we have our destiny set in stone.
In an analogy, it is just like when you play a console RPG. The destiny of the characters' journey is already set, however it is still you playing through it.

 

[Mathematician]

Destiny doesn't exist. It violates the uncertainty principle.

As for free will, it also doesn't exist. We are as much a slave to our preconditions as rocks, plants, animals, and subatomic particles. We're just being flung through chaos.

The uncertainty principle is a restriction of mathematics; it is not physically significant beyond what an observer relying on traditional information carriers (photons) can process. Your car is not in two places at once; neither is an electron -- that would violate conservation of energy, momentum, etc.

I believe in destiny because I believe in determinism because I believe in the basic principle of cause and effect in science. Nothing yet has violated the law of casuality so why start now? It's not a sad image to perceive. I often feel more sympathy for others and can absolve them of faults as a determinist.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

The uncertainty principle is a restriction of mathematics; it is not physically significant beyond what an observer relying on traditional information carriers (photons) can process. Your car is not in two places at once; neither is an electron.

I believe in destiny because I believe in determinism because I believe in the basic principle of cause and effect in science. Nothing yet has violated the law of casuality so why start now?

Then why do physicists track a particle's potential path via "sum over paths"? If all there is is cause and effect, why do we have to worry that a particle can take a near infinite amount of paths to the same point?

 

[Nerthus]

I believe we do "make" our destiny, and also that we have our destiny set in stone.
In an analogy, it is just like when you play a console RPG. The destiny of the characters' journey is already set, however it is still you playing through it.

But if you are playing that game - the characters destiny to to finish and win right? However you can still die too early and never make it to the end/ your destiny.

So, how does that work if the characters destiny is set in stone?

 

[Onkara]

Also if our lives are planned out, how would the idea of illness fit into it? Is illness also planned?

Is destiny more of a religious idea? That God has designed a path for us? Another idea that we are not in control of our lives.

Hi Nerthus
In my opinion there is destiny, but it isn't known until we arrive at it. During the path we feel drawn to certain things more than others, later we arrive at knowing that nothing was a mistake but a complicated path.

It depends on the illness. Illness is not punishment, although it is incapacitating. We can also improve or recover with illness, and that is the challenge that lies in our path.

If we accept destiny then we must accept that we are not in control. This is very hard if someone does not recognise anything, such as God, as greater than their own thoughts, wishes and needs. This is why those who tend towards destiny are religious.

 

[Koldo]

But if you are playing that game - the characters destiny to to finish and win right? However you can still die too early and never make it to the end/ your destiny.

So, how does that work if the characters destiny is set in stone?

Not necessarily to win.
Analogies are not perfect, so simply consider the early death of characters as impossible.

 

[Mathematician]

Then why do physicists track a particle's potential path via "sum over paths"? If all there is is cause and effect, why do we have to worry that a particle can take a near infinite amount of paths to the same point?

Feynman's theory says that all paths from an emission point to a second event contributes to the amplitude of the particle being detected at that event. The square of THIS amplitude relates to a probability density that gives us an idea as to where the particle is during any point in time, just like the square of a normal wave amplitude tells us its energy.

Most of these paths conveniently cancel out because their absurdity is paired with an equally but opposite absurdity - such as a photon emitted from my laptop traveling faster than the speed of light to the Galactic core before returning to my eye. Destructive interference of probabilities.

But really all of this is quite irrelevant because if someone is having to grasp at quantum mechanics to try to justify opposition to determinism/destiny, it's a show of desperation since clearly the macroscopic world is predictable.

 

[Nooj]

I believe in destiny, but I believe it doesn't exist. By destiny, I don't mean something as definite or as real as a plan drawn up by someone. And it's something less substantial than a tendency...

I believe the world acts towards my good. Or rather, good things happen to me. When I say I believe it doesn't exist, I don't think that these things are actually good at all. It's up to me to make something of them. Things just happen. And I either make them good or not. But just as important is the fact that these things happen in the first place. They're out of my control and often they occur in just the right places and times. So it's complicated.

 

[Nerthus]

Not necessarily to win.
Analogies are not perfect, so simply consider the early death of characters as impossible.

I can see your point, but I still do not believe that some force, or whatever you want to call it is able to decide our fate, and design how out lives will go.

That does reduce the option of free will. It says I can do whatever I like in life but will still do what has been planned for me.

What if someone kills themselves - is that them stopping their destiny, or is suicide their destiny? Or dying from cancer?

 

[Koldo]

I can see your point, but I still do not believe that some force, or whatever you want to call it is able to decide our fate, and design how out lives will go.

Our will and every other factor that comes into contact with us push us towards a given path.

That does reduce the option of free will.

Considering 'free will' is not even a meaningful term...

It says I can do whatever I like in life but will still do what has been planned for me.

I don't mean it like this.
It is not that someone/something else is forcing our actions to bring the same results no matter what we do, rather it is that we are compelled to make choices the way we do.

What if someone kills themselves - is that them stopping their destiny, or is suicide their destiny? Or dying from cancer?

Suicide is their destiny.
Dying from cancer may be someone's destiny if that is what happens.