Destroying your myth; Finding your path?

[chlotilde]

2) Somewhat relatedly, For those who are drawn towards more "mystical" understandings of religion and spirituality, is it possible to do so while remaining within the "mythic" bounds of a traditional religion. By "mythic" I don't mean "false" necessarily, rather something like the entire construct of symbols that make up a particular religious point of view. They are "myth" in the sense of being the assumed background of a particular religious practice. Or is this too constraining? Are there no tracks in the sky, as the Dhammapada says? Do you have to make your own path?

That would be me. I wasn't religious when I had the "mystic" experience, but when I was in that "moment" the brain searches its knowledge bank for the words to describe it and finds it in the religious words you do know. So whether you call it a zen moment, or a place where heaven or nirvana align, or in Catholicism, a moment of ecstasy (literal ex-outside existence) you find the place where all those other religious words you learned as a kid, take on a new spiritual meaning.

So a word like "atonement" has a literal meaning of sinning and mercy begging...a figurative "mythic" meaning of the rituals to get us there...but then the spiritual meaning of at-one-ment, that "mystic" moment of being at-one with God...and when you are in that "moment" you see that "sin" takes on a new meaning (perhaps "the way God sees it").
When I was...hmmm...perhaps "blind" about what it all meant...I could never understand what the Church meant that the celebration of the Mass was a celebration of the "eternal now". It seemed like religious gobbledegook. But whatever "mystic" moment I can be in, I realize that something like "time" doesn't exist and "the eternal now" is a good way to describe it.

 

[Typist]

First, "Roamin Catholic", that's funny! How did I miss that until now?

Me too, way Roamin. The roamin I chose, an act of will. The ideology, set aside, by me.

But the centuries of Catholic heritage embedded in my DNA, beyond choice. I didn't see it for decades thinking I had walked away, not realizing in my youthful illusion of imaginary power that I had never had a vote about the DNA part. Duh....

That would be me. I wasn't religious when I had the "mystic" experience, but when I was in that "moment" the brain searches its knowledge bank for the words to describe it and finds it in the religious words you do know.

Without commenting on your experience, but speaking generally about the subject at large...

Yes, the brain will search for a word. And that is when religion is born, in that moment of transition from experience to symbols.

It's like we're having sex, and then we say, "No, wait, stop, let's take a picture of this." The experience is the sex, and religion is the photo.

That's what religion really is, it's like trading sex with reality for a little piece of paper. Honestly, who the heck cares how well the photo came out, who cares how accurate it is? For crying out loud, it's a piece of paper, who cares???

We try to capture a living thing, but in doing so we kill it. That's because thought is what hides the "the eternal now" from us. Thus, as soon as we try to name the experience, it vanishes.

Not incorrect thoughts, not the wrong religion, not a misunderstanding, not a philosophy which should be reconsidered, not a bad idea. It's not particular thoughts which are the obstacle to experiencing the eternal now.

It's any thought. It's the medium all thoughts are made of.

All philosophy, however logical or illogical, correct or incorrect it may be, is a step away from the single unified reality of now and a step in to the inherently divisive symbolic realm of time.

This post is philosophy. This post is a step out of the real world and in to the symbol world. It doesn't matter whether the post is correct or not, it's still a photo, and not the real thing. At this very moment, you are trading sex with reality for a cheap little tattered fuzzy photo taken by some anonymous old fart on the Internet. What a bargain, eh? Uh, not really!

There is nothing any of us can think, say or write that will ever be anything more than a highly imperfect photograph. Why bother with collecting all the cheap flimsy little dead photos when the real living thing is ever present all around us every moment of our lives?

That's where the real action is.

Not in the tiny symbol kingdom between our ears which we rule over so ineptly as tiny gods. Not in words, concepts, ideas, religion and anti-religion, thought.

The real action is in the real world.

It doesn't need a name. It's been doing just fine without a name for billions of years before we namers came along.

 

[Jumi]

We don't inherit our parents belief system through genes, but I guess you meant that figuratively.

 

[Typist]

We don't inherit our parents belief system through genes, but I guess you meant that figuratively.

We don't inherit the particular beliefs, agreed. But we likely inherit the way we go about thinking about things like beliefs.

As example, there are many folks here on the forum who like me were raised religious, but now are not. They, like me, had the power to make a decision about the particular beliefs.

But here they are, like me, still thinking about these topics day after day, perhaps for years, even decades. Even though they may now sincerely believe religion to be a pile of poop, a waste of time, they're still investing a lot of time in the subject. This is the kind of thing which may be beyond choice.

Sure, we could leave this forum. We could disconnect from the net. Choices which can be made. But due to our DNA, we may not have the choice to stop thinking about these kinds of topics.

 

[lovemuffin]

There's lots more in what you said I'd like to address, but I'll just toss this out there for now.

I've been very lazy about reading your post here with the amount of attention it deserved, but haven finally gotten around to it, I think you make a lot of really good points. Thanks for that.

 

[chlotilde]

First, "Roamin Catholic", that's funny! How did I miss that until now?.

well if there is one thing I love, it is a good pun. lol

This post is philosophy.

well to give you a little on my philosophy (lover of wisdom that I attempt to be)...call me batty....but
I'm working on this little theory, I call it the “evolution of the meme” (well, it is really Dawkins'). And just like in gene theory, where there are 4 fundamental chemicals of DNA that become all these patterns of life, there must be some amount of fundamental memes that become all these patterns of ideas (and the way they get expressed are words). So I have to attack this theory from different ends. By taking the “idea” we have today, say a science theory like Newton’s laws of motion, and then I parse the idea and/or English words to find the more fundamental idea, see how it may have evolved. From another end, I have to look at history to find where that fundamental idea occurs. The book of Genesis is an easy source as it is one I know. There are of course, many contradicting ideas (Newtown’s 3rd law of motion-forces in opposite directions). They are paradoxes, so I look for the “dox”, or to be punny, that little doxy ( I like the word doxycycline, it is so yin yang...and if you look at its molecular shape and know how it was derived from tetracycline, it was excellently named). This "para-dox" could be (?) some type of fundamental meme with Genesis presenting it as the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

But an example of one of the most fundamental memes is food (and it could be the only one…which is perhaps your "poop" theory,lol, in one end and out the other...but see, there ya go...there's that forces in opposite direction meme). Og the cavemen didn’t write his ideas in words but in pictures, of his hunt. By the time you jump to the Book of Genesis, the sacrifice of food is another art form (to the point of Christianity where God himself is the sacrifice).

One reason I like coming to RF is reading the Bible debates where they parse Greek/Hebrew words for me (saves me leg work). The fundamental meme is in there somewhere...

But if there is some “truth” to my theory, then my knowledge is an all or nothing game. So when it comes to Vegas or St. Blaise Pascal, I hedge my bets a little and choose St. Anselm…fides quaerens intellectum (and jeez-o-peez-o...even that expression has at least two meanings...I wish I knew latin better).