devas in samkhya

[nathanielfirst]

just out of curiosity, do the old samkhya, nyaya, and vaisheshika systems admit ANY sort of supernatural agent with an ego, able to perform any type of miracle or magic or supernatural deed? I know that they are generally atheistic as far as 'GOD' is concerned but I'm thinking Devas here?

 

[Andal]

just out of curiosity, do the old samkhya, nyaya, and vaisheshika systems admit ANY sort of supernatural agent with an ego, able to perform any type of miracle or magic or supernatural deed? I know that they are generally atheistic as far as 'GOD' is concerned but I'm thinking Devas here?

This is a good question. The thing to remember with the darshanas is that they are not theology but philosophy. Vaisheshika for example is interested in how one comes to proper logical thought including the atomic theory. The god question just isn't important. Now, Vaisheshika's sister school, Nyaya builds on Vaisheshika and concludes that there must be a controller of the material world.

Sankya is built on the relationship between Purusha and Prakrti and doesn't really have a place for devas and miracle beyond the idea that devas like all other material have a relationship to Purusha.

It's really once you get into Mimamsa and Vedanta that you have a focus on divine beings.

Aum Hari Aum!

 

[kaisersose]

just out of curiosity, do the old samkhya, nyaya, and vaisheshika systems admit ANY sort of supernatural agent with an ego, able to perform any type of miracle or magic or supernatural deed? I know that they are generally atheistic as far as 'GOD' is concerned but I'm thinking Devas here?

I had this question myself once and the answer I found is NO. This also includes Mimamsa.

I know I had a good summary on this topic. Will look for it tonight.

 

[nathanielfirst]

much thanks! yeah i got that samkhya considers devas in an abstract way, not so much as conscious entities but as manifestations of elemenst, ideas, natural forces, etc., could be wrong...

 

[Satsangi]

I disagree with the conclusion that Samkhya is Atheistic. Kindly read my thread on Samkhya philosophy for details. Samkhya is basically a type of Jnana path in my opnion. It says that the Prakriti has 24 elements (5 Karmendriyas, 5 Jnanendriyas, 4 Anthakarana, 5 Bhutas, 5 Tanmatras). Samkhya, in my opinion, ASSUMES that the Jeevas and the Devas (e.g Indra, Vayudev, Agnidev etc) cannot be without these 24 elements and hence does not mention them seperately. Again, in my opinion, Samkhya's 25th element ABOVE the 24 elements of Prakriti is Paramatman. The follower of Samkhya typically assumes that anything that is in the 24 elements is worth giving up and only the 25th element (Paramatman) is worth pursuing.

Regards,

 

[Onkara]

Hi

I have encountered the idea that Samkhya is atheist here, keeping in mind this is a lecture and as to if we should accept that or not is debatable it seems -
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/24principles.asp


Quote:

The greatness of Samkyha lies in the fact that the evolution of life on earth is depicted not as miracle work of God, but as a creative process passing through different phases of change and transformation.

Infact the original Samkhya did not accept the idea of an Absolute Principle or God behind creation. The individual soul or Purusha is the eternal principle which joins with Prakriti, another eternal principle to establish its presence in the material world. The individual soul is immortal. It exists prior to the emergence of other principles and will continue to exist even after the rest disappear.

The Bhagavad gita picks up the basic aspects of Samkhya, but adds the principle of Supreme Self or Universal Purusha as the cause of all creation.

 

[kaisersose]

much thanks! yeah i got that samkhya considers devas in an abstract way, not so much as conscious entities but as manifestations of elemenst, ideas, natural forces, etc., could be wrong...

Most scholars agree that Sankya is atheistic, but there are a few exceptions.

The Sankya Karika contains 73 verses, of which 13 are believed to be later interpolations by Brahmanas to harmonize Sankya and Vedanta (a similar attempt is seen in the Gita). There is some evidence for the "original 60" in a Pancharatra text which calls the Sankya system as shashti tantra. One of the Sankya kaarikas make a similar mention. Another point to note is Kapila, the founder of the system predates the Buddha. Due to the passage of a long period of time, it is highly probable that Kapila's system was refined or extended to reflect more current beliefs.

In short, If only sixty verses are accepted, then Sankya is atheistic. Else, it is open to debate. Larson, Garbe, etc., have written extensively on the topic.

 

[Satsangi]

Besides the Sankhya Karika, there are shlokas in the Mahabharat where Samkhya principles are described. Samkhya being atheistic is basically a literal conclusion. Samkhya mentions Purusha and Prakriti as seperate, but the creation REQUIRES the Purusha (Paramatman). Purusha does not create the Prakriti-- both are eternal elements. But, the creation out of that Mool Prakiti requires Purusha.

Regards,