Dharmic traditions only: How would you know if you had an Atman?

[Rick O'Shez]

I find, the vichara, the constant awareness of anatta in Buddhism to be same as 'vichara of self and self-non self' of advaita. These two are only apparently different. The experience is the same.

Intriguing, I will investigate this further. I wonder if there is a correspondence between vichara and sati? Both seem to involve an awareness of the aggregates.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

There is no 'self' in 'advaita', it is Brahman only. I did not find mine.
That is why many termed Sankara a Buddhist.

Interesting. Of course there is no Brahman either in Buddhism, though I wonder if the unconditioned ( the Deathless ) of the suttas is an equivalent.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So how do you approach these questions from a Left Hand Path perspective?

IMHO, both the right-hand path (Advaita) or the left-hand path (Tantra), finally reject 'self'.

 

[kalyan]

Interesting. Of course there is no Brahman either in Buddhism, though I wonder if the unconditioned ( the Deathless ) of the suttas is an equivalent.

He is a self proclaimed atheist, he speaks only for himself, so don't take it literally......He does not even practice advaita also. He framed some kind of philosophy in his own mind and rubs on everyone.

Even In advaita there is a SELF and he is equal to BRAHMAN. = Atma is Brahman in ADVAITA which is not accepted by VISISTA-ADVAITA where the ATMA is controlled by PARAMAATMA (which is the teaching of vedam) . I am not sure why do you want to continue on this topic if things are already perfectly explained.

1. nature (insentient/ all the bodies)
2. Jiva/atma( Sentient driving the body )
3. Paramaatma(which drives jiva and has Jiva and prakriti as his body)

 

[Papoon]

IMHO, both the right-hand path (Advaita) or the left-hand path (Tantra), finally reject 'self'.

There is simply no need to have an idea about self, apart from functional ideas about one's social identity and relation to others.

 

[atanu]

There is simply no need to have an idea about self, apart from functional ideas about one's social identity and relation to others.

Will you kindly explain.

 

[Papoon]

Will you kindly explain.

Sure. Aupmanyav said " IMHO, both the right-hand path (Advaita) or the left-hand path (Tantra), finally reject 'self'."

I think that means, in practice, abandoning thoughts about self, no self, whatever. They are thoughts like any other.

Whether 'the meditator' is labelled Atman, awareness, indwelling spirit, luminosity or whatever else makes no difference to anything except the content of inner dialog - chatter - and to philosophical conversation such as this.
The reality under discussion - being-observing-experiencing - is not a function of thoughts and concepts, and not contingent on 'the right idea'.

It is already present regardless of what we think, or whether or not we call it self, etc.
I would go as far as to say that it is best to renounce any such philosophical position as a redundancy and distraction from abiding easily in unfabricated mind.

 

[kalyan]

Sure. Aupmanyav said " IMHO, both the right-hand path (Advaita) or the left-hand path (Tantra), finally reject 'self'."

I think that means, in practice, abandoning thoughts about self, no self, whatever. They are thoughts like any other.

Whether 'the meditator' is labelled Atman, awareness, indwelling spirit, luminosity or whatever else makes no difference to anything except the content of inner dialog - chatter - and to philosophical conversation such as this.
The reality under discussion - being-observing-experiencing - is not a function of thoughts and concepts, and not contingent on 'the right idea'.

It is already present regardless of what we think, or whether or not we call it self, etc.
I would go as far as to say that it is best to renounce any such philosophical position as a redundancy and distraction from abiding easily in unfabricated mind.

Btw Advaita is based around atma. It does not reject self in anyway

 

[Aupmanyav]

Advaita, Tantra and Buddhism tried to find 'self' but found it nowhere. Of course, in Advaita and Tantra, it may not be the majority view, as mentioned by Kalyan.