Did Any of the Authors of the Gospels Know Jesus?

[AmbiguousGuy]

From what I've read, the earliest gospel dates to hundreds of years after the events described are supposed to have taken place.

Do you mean gMark? Can you summarize why it is thought to be later than the conventional dating of 75 CE or so?

Even if it was 75 CE, I can't see why people would take that as reliable. (Well, other than theological reasons.)

Imagine right now trying to reconstruct some guy's life who lived in 1970, in a foreign country.

 

[steeltoes]

No one that ever wrote about Jesus actually met the guy, but it is possible that the author of Mark knew of Paul and the Jerusalem group, or had some of Pauls' writings before him when he wrote the Passion Narrative. Pauls' Christ is not known to have ever lived on earth whereas Mark set the gospel story in an actual time and place.

 

[Alceste]

Do you mean gMark? Can you summarize why it is thought to be later than the conventional dating of 75 CE or so?

Even if it was 75 CE, I can't see why people would take that as reliable. (Well, other than theological reasons.)

Imagine right now trying to reconstruct some guy's life who lived in 1970, in a foreign country.

I can't remember the specifics. I read that book fifteen years ago. It's also very likely that the author misrepresented the facts. It's a terrible book.

 

[steeltoes]

Do you mean gMark? Can you summarize why it is thought to be later than the conventional dating of 75 CE or so?

Even if it was 75 CE, I can't see why people would take that as reliable. (Well, other than theological reasons.)

Imagine right now trying to reconstruct some guy's life who lived in 1970, in a foreign country.

The earliest copies that we physically have date to a few hundred years after the story takes place.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

The earliest copies that we physically have date to a few hundred years after the story takes place.

Yeah, but I thought that historical linguists and other scholars had dated it around 75 CE?

 

[steeltoes]

Some people have difficulty accepting the fact that all we have is a storied account, a story that is an obvious work of fiction for those that have actually read it. No one has actually met Sherlock Holmes for exactly the same reasons no one has ever met Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[Alceste]

The earliest copies that we physically have date to a few hundred years after the story takes place.

Yeah, but I thought that historical linguists and other scholars had dated it around 75 CE?

I just looked it up. The oldest physical fragments we have date from hundreds of years after the fact, but textual analysis dates the original content to have been written about 75-150 years after the fact.

The dumb book I cited did make that distinction, I just forgot.

 

[steeltoes]

Yeah, but I thought that historical linguists and other scholars had dated it around 75 CE?

The original copy that is no longer in existence could not have been written prior to 70CE, but nothing says it could not have been written a few decades later than that.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

The earliest reference to a gospel is in Papias, who lived in the first half of the second century. He said that Mark wrote a biography of Jesus based on what he'd learned from Peter, whose secretary he'd been, and that Matthew made a collection of the sayings of Jesus in the original language. The simplest conclusion is that Mark's gospel is that biography and the collection of sayings found in both Matthew and Luke is a Greek translation of the original work by the real Matthew.

Mark was too young to have been a disciple, though he would have seen Jesus in Jerusalem at the end of his life. The other gospels are presumably written at the time of Papias or later — AD 200-250 — and so cannot be by the real Matthew and John. They never refer to their ostensible selves as "we" or "I", for example, and if you read "John" closely, you'll see he has the crucifixion on Thursday instead of Friday!

 

[outhouse]

What are you talking about? They all knew Jesus in life.

Um No.

They only knew the mythology that was gernerated with his martyrdom after passover.

They only knew Jesus in death.

 

[outhouse]

Did any of the authors of the Gospels know Jesus in life? .

Nope.


Highly doubt it.


Galileans would have wrote in Aramaic, and would have never directed any Jewish scripture towards their Hellenistic oppressors.

These people were Jews, Galilean Jews who were known to be pious towards traditional Judaismn if that term can even be used. They would have never promoted a Hellenistic version of their movement in any wauy shape or form.

 

[fantome profane]

the reason people think they didn't know jesus is just a time-frame factor, considering that some were family.....it would be quite strange if they didn't know him.

but hey, biblical 'historicity' is quirky.

You might be thinking of the Epistle of James. This is believed by some to be written by Jesus's brother James. But the authorship is highly questionable to say the least. But none of the Gospels were written by anyone who was related to Jesus.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

The original copy that is no longer in existence could not have been written prior to 70CE, but nothing says it could not have been written a few decades later than that.

I've always heard that 'the scholarly consensus' says 70 CE or so for Mark. What do you think the scholarly consensus says about it? And what date do you personally think?

 

[outhouse]

You might be thinking of the Epistle of James. This is believed by some to be written by Jesus's brother James. But the authorship is highly questionable to say the least. But none of the Gospels were written by anyone who was related to Jesus.

Not only that, saying gospels like Thomas could very well be just a collection of Galilean parables edited/redacted to be acceptable in Hellenistic communities.

Many of the parables IMHO probably originated with John the Baptist that Jesus used since he was a student of Johns.

What or how Jesus used or changed these parables not originating with him are completely unkmown. At hi stime every Galilean parable would have been attributed to Jesus.

 

[brokensymmetry]

Did any of the authors of the Gospels know Jesus in life? My impression is that none of them did. But I'm wondering if that impression is wrong.

Please stick to topic and refrain from debating the question of whether or not Jesus existed. If you want to debate that, start your own thread please.

at least according to historical critical scholars of the bible the earliest New Testament source is Paul, Paul's writings. The earliest gospel is Mark typically dated to about 70 CE and it does not seem the author knew Jesus personally.

 

[steeltoes]

I've always heard that 'the scholarly consensus' says 70 CE or so for Mark. What do you think the scholarly consensus says about it? And what date do you personally think?

I look to when the story actually surfaced. When do the first attestations to the gospel story appear? It seems to be sometime in the second century at the earliest. In Mark we read that Jerusalem lay desolate, that is why the earliest date of 70CE is given, that is when the Romans sacked Jerusalem, it could not have been written before then.

 

[Desert Snake]

You might be thinking of the Epistle of James. This is believed by some to be written by Jesus's brother James. But the authorship is highly questionable to say the least. But none of the Gospels were written by anyone who was related to Jesus.

Yes, you're right.

 

[outhouse]

it could not have been written before then.

Which is not entirely correct.

mark was a compilation and compiled around 70. Much of the material could have been in use for decades.

that is why the earliest date of 70CE is given

Not really correct.

That would be only one factor of many that determines dating.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Which is not entirely correct.

mark was a compilation and compiled around 70. Much of the material could have been in use for decades.

Like the Brothers Grimm. That makes sense to me. Still, I think we can say that they 'wrote' the tales, even if they existed in various forms before the brothers collected them.

(I wonder if the Brothers Grimm actually knew Cinderella?)

 

[steeltoes]

Like the Brothers Grimm. That makes sense to me. Still, I think we can say that they 'wrote' the tales, even if they existed in various forms before the brothers collected them.

(I wonder if the Brothers Grimm actually knew Cinderella?)

I am sure they did, or at least knew of the oral traditions.