Did Any of the Authors of the Gospels Know Jesus?

[Alceste]

OK. I disagree. None of the others were God on earth.



Of course they were probably inspired by the lives of real people. So was Bugs Bunny. He was a wise-cracking pal of the creator of the strip, I'm sure.

I write fiction. All of my characters are 'inspired by real people.'

Except some are inspired by other fictional characters, so....

Jesus wasn't God on earth either. Therefore, he is in the same category as the others.

 

[Alceste]

Nifty. Have you researched the OP question yourself?
Because some people who have, have come to a different conclusion than jay, so....

have you??...........
Btw, I suppose you ignored Peggs post..

Yes, I have read up on this subject. I just have higher standards of evidence than Pegg, who is content to base her interpretation of scripture on faith alone.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

Jesus wasn't God on earth either. Therefore, he is in the same category as the others.

That seems like a slip in your rationality, Alceste, which I rarely see.

First, you don't know if Jesus was God on earth or if he wasn't.

Second, until very recently most everyone in the Western world did indeed assume that Jesus was God on earth. A majority may still do so. And I've got to argue that the historicity of God on earth is way different than the historicity of Socrates. No one thinks their lives are hopeless and useless if Socrates was mythical. But lots of folks feel that way about Jesus.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

He really, really needs to coerce this into yet another historical Jesus debate. Dogmatism is often compulsive, but one wonders why he doesn't simply start his own thread. Perhaps it's fear of being appropriately ignored. :yes:

 

[Alceste]

That seems like a slip in your rationality, Alceste, which I rarely see.

First, you don't know if Jesus was God on earth or if he wasn't.

Second, until very recently most everyone in the Western world did indeed assume that Jesus was God on earth. A majority may still do so. And I've got to argue that the historicity of God on earth is way different than the historicity of Socrates. No one thinks their lives are hopeless and useless if Socrates was mythical. But lots of folks feel that way about Jesus.

I don't view the world through such a Eurocentric filter myself, so I don't consider the fact that Europeans and their descendants were and are mostly Christian particularly relevant to the question of whether or not some storied individual ever actually walked the earth.

Most historians also agree that Buddha is based on a person. Do you dismiss that conclusion as well because Asia is full of Buddhists?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

I don't view the world through such a Eurocentric filter myself, so I don't consider the fact that Europeans and their descendants were and are mostly Christian particularly relevant to the question of whether or not some storied individual ever actually walked the earth.

Well, OK. I see us as their cultural heirs, so I do see it as relevant.

Most historians also agree that Buddha is based on a person. Do you dismiss that conclusion as well because Asia is full of Buddhists?

I've never looked into that, so I have no strong opinion about Buddha one way or the other. But I would be skeptical if a bunch of Buddhist historians insisted that Buddha was historical. I'd want to study the evidence myself, as I do with Jesus.

Anyway, as I've said, I'm sure Jesus was based on some person, possibly on a group of people. That's how I build many of my characters. I take traits, behaviors, events from various people.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

He really, really needs to coerce this into yet another historical Jesus debate. Dogmatism is often compulsive, but one wonders why he doesn't simply start his own thread. Perhaps it's fear of being appropriately ignored. :yes:

Jesus is not here, Jay. He can't start his own thread. What the heck are you talking about?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Please stick to topic and refrain from debating the question of whether or not Jesus existed. If you want to debate that, start your own thread please.

Great idea …

 

[Desert Snake]

...:spit:

Hmm, yes, back on topic please?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Hmm, yes, back on topic please?

Perhaps you could start with post #102.

 

[idav]

Did any of the authors of the Gospels know Jesus in life? My impression is that none of them did. But I'm wondering if that impression is wrong.

The way they are written is as if someone is listening and possibly having a conversation with Jesus. However there seem to plenty of that genre but only a handful that tied to the dogma the mainstream preferred. Could be how the stories were told and retold, coincides with the gospel of thomas, of course there are heresies in there, but aside from that it goes toward proof of someone actually jotting down the stuff this fella Jesus said.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The way they are written is as if someone is listening and possibly having a conversation with Jesus. ... it goes toward proof of someone actually jotting down the stuff this fella Jesus said.

Rubbish.

 

[InChrist]

Matthew and John were disciples of Jesus (Matthew 10:1-4) so they spent time with and personally knew Jesus. Mark may or may not have known Jesus, but he spent time with Peter and the other apostles who did know Jesus and he traveled with Paul during certain portions of his journeys. Luke based his narrative on the eyewitness accounts of those who had known Jesus from the beginning and seen His life as fulfillment of prophecy.

 

[Alceste]

Well, OK. I see us as their cultural heirs, so I do see it as relevant.



I've never looked into that, so I have no strong opinion about Buddha one way or the other. But I would be skeptical if a bunch of Buddhist historians insisted that Buddha was historical. I'd want to study the evidence myself, as I do with Jesus.

Anyway, as I've said, I'm sure Jesus was based on some person, possibly on a group of people. That's how I build many of my characters. I take traits, behaviors, events from various people.

Ah, I see. I don't consider us "cultural heirs" to Christianity. I think secular society is far more influenced by the ideas of Epicurus, John Locke, Bertrand Russell, Voltaire and their ilk than by any pope or preacher. Nowhere is that influence more obvious than in secular academia, where all these historians I'm talking about earn their daily bread.

I understand that everyone has an inherent bias, but academics - unlike the rest of us - are required to make a good faith effort to take that into account and support their assertions with solid evidence. Otherwise, they don't keep their jobs very long.

 

[Alceste]

The way they are written is as if someone is listening and possibly having a conversation with Jesus. However there seem to plenty of that genre but only a handful that tied to the dogma the mainstream preferred. Could be how the stories were told and retold, coincides with the gospel of thomas, of course there are heresies in there, but aside from that it goes toward proof of someone actually jotting down the stuff this fella Jesus said.

Plato was quite fond of recording his own ideas as dialogues. Do you suppose this means those particular conversations actually occured?

 

[Alceste]

Matthew and John were disciples of Jesus (Matthew 10:1-4) so they spent time with and personally knew Jesus. Mark may or may not have known Jesus, but he spent time with Peter and the other apostles who did know Jesus and he traveled with Paul during certain portions of his journeys. Luke based his narrative on the eyewitness accounts of those who had known Jesus from the beginning and seen His life as fulfillment of prophecy.

When and where did Matthew and John learn Greek?

 

[idav]

Plato was quite fond of recording his own ideas as dialogues. Do you suppose this means those particular conversations actually occured?

Seemed to be a popular genre. The canonical Gospels embellishments of it.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

*edit*

Evidence?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The way they are written is as if someone is listening and possibly having a conversation with Jesus. However there seem to plenty of that genre but only a handful that tied to the dogma the mainstream preferred. Could be how the stories were told and retold, coincides with the gospel of thomas, of course there are heresies in there, but aside from that it goes toward proof of someone actually jotting down the stuff this fella Jesus said.

Nonsense. They're not written in the style of a person observing another. In the desert, when Jesus was tempted by Satan, how did they know what was going on? Or in the Garden of Gethsemane, when all the apostles were asleep and Jesus was alone. How did they know what was happening? And the line about Mary "pondering in her heart what this may mean" and the meeting with Gabriel in general. Wtf.

However, this makes sense when you view it like this: Omniscient narrator - Narrative

It's a common tool of fiction.

 

[Alceste]

*edit*

Again with the "biblical scholars". I'm talking about actual scholars, from secular universities. Historians, anthropologists, archeologists, etc.