did God create a cruel world?

[michel]

Why do you say that?

I

That is denominationism. Religion is just a belief in God.


You are kidding, right? When you go back that far (at least pre early Egyptian), I think you will find that the concept of being civil to somebody else had not even cross their minds. The strongest took from the weakest, females were abused as part of life, and the weak were left to die. How do I know that? Because we had just emerged from being animals, and that is the way they act.

Sorry, Merlin, what you are suggesting implies that if it was not for religion, there would be no morals - which is not so.

 

[Halcyon]

Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods. What is it in your atheism that requires a "strong faith"?

That's not quite right Malus, atheism is the positive assersion that God does not exist, it requires as much belief as theism. Most people accept its impossible to prove or disprove God's existance, its scientifically untestable. Thus, to believe there is no God you must base that belief on personal experience and understanding, exactly as a theist does. The state not requiring any belief either way is agnosticism, meaning without knowledge, we have no knowledge of God's existance or its absense, so why believe either way?

In answer to the original post, i believe God did not create the world cruel, but the son of Sophia, the demiurge, did make it flawed. In an unflawed world there would be no need to consume the organic matter of other lifeforms to exist, there would be no DNA degeneration (old age), no disease, and our bodies would be able to survive any accidental injury, in otherwords there would be no death. Without death there would be no need for reproduction, so the world would never get overpopulated. Without overpopulation there would be no competition and as such, no war, no famine, no tribal loyalties.
Unfortunately, flaws have been incorporated into the very fabric of the universe's physical laws, matter is essentially unstable, life degrades - cruelty arises.

 

[Kowalski]

if not, how did it get into its present position?

The world has always been cruel, whether you believe that a god created it ( which a God did not) or not, it has always been cruel, and a large proportion of the cruelty dished out is dished out by humans against humans and every other living entity on this Planet. If you believe in God, your God is a sadist.

Cheers

K

 

[Malus 12:9]

God didn't even create the world, in a sense, he just said "Let there be this and that," and they appeared. How is this creation.

 

[croak]

God didn't even create the world, in a sense, he just said "Let there be this and that," and they appeared. How is this creation.

He said the words and by them created life?

 

[michel]

God didn't even create the world, in a sense, he just said "Let there be this and that," and they appeared. How is this creation.

I must admit I am confused. "How is this creation" - is that a question ?

 

[Steve]

Do Ford make crashed cars?

 

[Merlin]

The world has always been cruel, whether you believe that a god created it ( which a God did not) or not, it has always been cruel, and a large proportion of the cruelty dished out is dished out by humans against humans and every other living entity on this Planet. If you believe in God, your God is a sadist.

Cheers

K

Yes I accept that. However, if somebody waived the proverbial magic wand, and from this minute forward humankind made not a single act of cruelty to anybody else and became perfect supporters of everybody else with great kindness, it wouldn't change the amount of cruelty that goes on in the world by more than millions of 1% (and I no I can't justify that figure)

The insect kingdom alone has hundreds of times more biomass than humankind. They will continue to be savagely cruel. So, if God created us with the challenge to be kind, why did God create other animals insects and birds to be so appallingly cruel? They will not change.

 

[michel]

Yes I accept that. However, if somebody waived the proverbial magic wand, and from this minute forward humankind made not a single act of cruelty to anybody else and became perfect supporters of everybody else with great kindness, it wouldn't change the amount of cruelty that goes on in the world by more than millions of 1% (and I no I can't justify that figure)

The insect kingdom alone has hundreds of times more biomass than humankind. They will continue to be savagely cruel. So, if God created us with the challenge to be kind, why did God create other animals insects and birds to be so appallingly cruel? They will not change.

Unfortunately you make a good point to which there is no answer; it is one I have problems with. However much I would prefer to be able to say that no animal or plant life has to be killed so I may be fed, I realize that apart from being an impossibility, it goes against Nature.

 

[delta0021]

I know I’m just a noob compared to all of you folks but I though I might add something to this thread. The controversy over the existence of evil either to prove God’s existence or to disprove has been one of great interest to me. One idea that makes a good point comes from Leibniz’s “Theodicy”. Basically what he wanted to say was that evil/suffering in this world are not an argument against the existence of God simply because when God created the world he knew that a human race had to be allowed choice, to function. By this I mean if you had a world with no choice how would our brain function? Or would we even need a brain? We would all be drones, never having the opportunity to take different paths. After you allow choice there will most certainly be evil. If evil does not exist then we don’t have choice. Now some people would argue that this could be, but God still should have never allowed the Holocaust, Rwanda, and other great disasters. Leibniz would say you cannot restrict a man from doing evil or you are simply taking away his right to choose. I have always thought of this as one of the great brain twisters. I would be excited to see what you all thought.