Did God create evil?

[Skwim]

If you will notice and read this verse in context you will see that the word "evil" which can be and is often translated as calamity is contrasted with the word peace ...not the word "good".

Regardless of what it's contrasted to, it remains what it is, a wickedness (to use your term). The word "evil" is used in many Bibles because it's what the translators felt best fitted god's intended meaning.

This is because this verse is in a passage speaking about God's dealings in the earthly affairs of humans on earth, specifically in reference to Cyrus and his dealings in relation to Israel.

Actually, if you read the chapter, god goes from describing his assistance to Cyrus in the first four verses, to proclaiming his superiority and accomplishments in versus 5-7.

5 I am Jehovah, and there is none else; besides me there is no God. I will gird thee, though thou hast not known me;
6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none besides me: I am Jehovah, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things
​

This is not a verse about "evil" being created like an animal. person, or planet any more than goodness is created.

Certainly not as a physical object, and no one would suggest such silliness. But to imply physical objects have some kind of more reality, which is what I think you're doing here, leaves you wide open to charges that notions such as sin and salvation are somehow less real, and I don't think you want to go down that road.

Goodness is an eternal attribute of God and evil only occurs when God's goodness is missing.

And because god said he created evil, and has done some less than admirable things, it can just as well be claimed that good only occurs when God's evilness is missing. Actually though the statement is a bit trite.

"While evil is certainly real, it is important to recognize that evil does not have existence in and of itself. Rather, it only exists as a privation (or a parasite) on the good. It exists in the same way that a wound exists on an arm or as rust exists on a car. The rust cannot exist on its own any more than cold can exist without the existence of heat or darkness can exist without the existence of light."

Balderdash!---to be polite.

 

[Ouroboros]

God is Love. Actually, I see in the scriptures that the greatest option is love and God’s love embodies goodness. The choice given to each created being is to receive or reject God’s love. For love to be real it must be freely accepted, not mechanical or forced. When one chooses to reject the love and goodness of God in their life, evil fills the void.

Then that's the answer, God allows evil and is a participant in its existence.

 

[InChrist]

Then that's the answer, God allows evil and is a participant in its existence.

I believe God, who can do no evil Himself, at present allows His created beings to choose between good and evil and He does so because He is a completely good God.

 

[InChrist]

Regardless of what it's contrasted to, it remains what it is, a wickedness (to use your term). The word "evil" is used in many Bibles because it's what the translators felt best fitted god's intended meaning.

It may be that some translators used the word evil because they thought it was okay to do so. This use of the word in the passage of Isaiah does not prove, as you are trying to make it do, that God created "evil ". If God created evil it would have been listed in the Genesis account. Certainly the creation of something such as evil which has impacted life throughout history would have been highlighted, but there is no mention of evil being created. Yet, the text reveals how sin, which leads to wickedness, came into the world.

 

[Skwim]

It may be that some translators used the word evil because they thought it was okay to do so.

"Some"? It happens to be the most popular translation of רע ra` in Isaiah 45:7.

This use of the word in the passage of Isaiah does not prove, as you are trying to make it do, that God created "evil ".

Then your idea of proof is far different than that of most people. Most have a good sense of rehtoric and the rules of grammar and syntactical expression, and understand simple written concepts such as "The sailor bought a new suit," a simple Subject + Verb + Object construction.

If God created evil it would have been listed in the Genesis account.

Really! And who came up with this rule?

Certainly the creation of something such as evil which has impacted life throughout history would have been highlighted, but there is no mention of evil being created.

Isn't there? You might be interested in Genesis 2:9.

"And out of the ground made Jehovah God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."
​

To have knowledge of something presupposes its existence, so evil came into existence during the time covered by the "Genesis account." And if something came into existence during the creation event guess who is responsible for it? Yup, the big guy.

 

[BSM1]

Humans are capable of an enormous range of self-serving actions. Morality is an evolved trait through which our social selves regulate those actions, and 'evil' is simply the word we currently use to describe actions and motivations that lie at the farthest possible extreme from those we hold ourselves and our in-group to. Like the rest of morality, the concept of evil is obligingly plastic: for example, nowadays slavery is regarded as an abominable evil; not many generations ago it was regarded as morally acceptable and economically necessary.

People who commit acts we condemn as 'evil' have generally made a mental re-ordering of the world to remove the objects of their actions from moral consideration: however the rest of us may see it, I seriously doubt any sane 'evil-doer' consciously labels his own actions evil - by his adjusted morality there is always a justification.

Reference to "natural evil ... like famines, floods, etc." reflect nothing more that our brains' difficulty in dealing with contingent events and our innate drive to see agency where none exists.

[/QUOTE

Exactly. Judgement calls. Like "honor killings" in most societies being totally evil, while in another society "honor killings" are not only not evil but revered and demanded.

 

[InChrist]

Isn't there? You might be interested in Genesis 2:9.

"And out of the ground made Jehovah God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."
​

To have knowledge of something presupposes its existence, so evil came into existence during the time covered by the "Genesis account." And if something came into existence during the creation event guess who is responsible for it? Yup, the big guy.

You are correct. God being all-knowing did have the knowledge concerning evil, but according to the scriptures evil came into being or reality before creation therefore it is not included as something created in Genesis. The scriptures reveal that Satan is the originator of evil. As long as there was only the eternal, holy and righteous God who was perfect in character and who knew all things including what would happen if what was right and good was violated there was no danger of evil manifesting. The potential for evil began when God made creatures with free moral agency and this is what took place when Lucifer challenged the position of the Creator out of pride, envy, and vanity. So evil began with the initial opposition by a created being against God the Creator in the heavenly realm.

 

[Skwim]

You are correct. God being all-knowing did have the knowledge concerning evil, but according to the scriptures evil came into being or reality before creation therefore it is not included as something created in Genesis.

What scripture is that?

The scriptures reveal that Satan is the originator of evil.

What scripture is that?

As long as there was only the eternal, holy and righteous God who was perfect in character and who knew all things including what would happen if what was right and good was violated there was no danger of evil manifesting.

But evil must have already "manifested" itself in order for one to have knowledge of it, as expressed in Gen. 2:9.

The potential for evil began when God made creatures with free moral agency and this is what took place when Lucifer challenged the position of the Creator out of pride, envy, and vanity.

Just so you know, I don't believe in freewill, which would include "free moral agency."

So evil began with the initial opposition by a created being against God the Creator in the heavenly realm.

Hey, you even agreed evil existed before the apple incident. You can't have it both ways.

 

[InChrist]

What scripture is that?


What scripture is that?

Isaiah 14;12-14, Ezekiel 28:11-15 and Revelation 12;4-7

But evil must have already "manifested" itself in order for one to have knowledge of it, as expressed in Gen. 2:9.

I said that evil was originated by Satan before the creation of Genesis.

Just so you know, I don't believe in freewill, which would include "free moral agency."

Okay, then there is probably not much point in further discussion.

Hey, you even agreed evil existed before the apple incident. You can't have it both ways.

[/quote]

Have it both ways in what way?

 

[ChristineES]

In scripture I see a lot of things, however, outside of the Gospels, I do not see much in the way of love.

I am beginning to believe that people believe that above because they mistakenly believe that love is accepting everything we do. Actually, accepting everything we do is not love- it can even be cruelty if you accept that a person is a drug addict or an over eater or whatever. My brother was an alcoholic- he meant the world to me and I miss him but I did not accept his alcoholism- it eventually killed him.

 

[Ouroboros]

I don't see why evil must exist for free will to exist. I can choose between chocolate ice cream and vanilla ice cream without either option begin "good" and the other "absent of good in the form of evil." Most options we have in our daily life (99.999999%) are between good, great, greater, better, best, awesome, or so-so. We don't have to make many moral decisions per day, but we make hundreds of minor choices not pertaining to good or evil. So I don't think "free will" requires "evil" to exist. It was God's choice to let evil come into existence. And I don't believe "free will" is somehow a "greater option" than good v evil. That's my opinion.

 

[InChrist]

I don't see why evil must exist for free will to exist. I can choose between chocolate ice cream and vanilla ice cream without either option begin "good" and the other "absent of good in the form of evil." Most options we have in our daily life (99.999999%) are between good, great, greater, better, best, awesome, or so-so. We don't have to make many moral decisions per day, but we make hundreds of minor choices not pertaining to good or evil. So I don't think "free will" requires "evil" to exist. It was God's choice to let evil come into existence. And I don't believe "free will" is somehow a "greater option" than good v evil. That's my opinion.

I have a question for you. Would you like to see laws passed prohibiting premarital sex?

 

[Skwim]

I don't see why evil must exist for free will to exist. I can choose between chocolate ice cream and vanilla ice cream without either option begin "good" and the other "absent of good in the form of evil." Most options we have in our daily life (99.999999%) are between good, great, greater, better, best, awesome, or so-so. We don't have to make many moral decisions per day, but we make hundreds of minor choices not pertaining to good or evil. So I don't think "free will" requires "evil" to exist. It was God's choice to let evil come into existence. And I don't believe "free will" is somehow a "greater option" than good v evil. That's my opinion.

Yup. I regard the "freewill" explanation of evil as grasping at straws. It obviously resonates with many people, but on reflection comes across as pretty stupid.

 

[InChrist]

Yup. I regard the "freewill" explanation of evil as grasping at straws. It obviously resonates with many people, but on reflection comes across as pretty stupid.

How about this question for you, do you think there should be laws passed prohibiting premarital sex? Or prohibiting abortion?

 

[Skwim]

How about this question for you, do you think there should be laws passed prohibiting premarital sex? Or prohibiting abortion?

Nope.

Nope.

 

[Ouroboros]

I have a question for you. Would you like to see laws passed prohibiting premarital sex?

Huh? What does have to do with it? Your question doesn't make sense to me in the context of the discussion.

But to answer your question, no. Why would I? I think it's up to the couples to decide themselves.

Can you explain where you're going with that question?

 

[Ouroboros]

Yup. I regard the "freewill" explanation of evil as grasping at straws. It obviously resonates with many people, but on reflection comes across as pretty stupid.

Fully agree.

Most things we do that are not-so-nice or not-so-good aren't necessarily evil either. God, supposedly, commanded wars and death of people in the old testament, so where is the line drawn for "evil vs good"? I don't think there is a clear line, so in the end, "God is good" doesn't mean anything tangible, neither does "evil". It all depends on situation, culture, etc, as we talked about earlier.

 

[ChristineES]

I don't see why evil must exist for free will to exist. I can choose between chocolate ice cream and vanilla ice cream without either option begin "good" and the other "absent of good in the form of evil." Most options we have in our daily life (99.999999%) are between good, great, greater, better, best, awesome, or so-so. We don't have to make many moral decisions per day, but we make hundreds of minor choices not pertaining to good or evil. So I don't think "free will" requires "evil" to exist. It was God's choice to let evil come into existence. And I don't believe "free will" is somehow a "greater option" than good v evil. That's my opinion.

It's because people choose to do things that they shouldn't do. Evil seems to be a result of all of our choices and not a separate thing. Is it just evil to murder someone or harm someone or is it also evil to eat too much at dinner (JUST AN EXAMPLE).

 

[InChrist]

Nope.

Nope.

Why shouldn't there be laws prohibiting abortion and premarital sex?

 

[InChrist]

Huh? What does have to do with it? Your question doesn't make sense to me in the context of the discussion.

But to answer your question, no. Why would I? I think it's up to the couples to decide themselves.

Can you explain where you're going with that question?

So are you saying that it is a good thing for individuals to have freedom to make moral choices?