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Did Jesus claim Himself to be God?
- Thread starter Christy
- Start date
if you lok at john ch. 14 v.28: my father is greater than i
john ch.10 v. 29: my father is greater than all
john ch. 5 v.30: I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
john ch.10 v. 29: my father is greater than all
john ch. 5 v.30: I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
nawab
Active Member
Let me add some more verses for your brother Yousaf
Jesus his Teaching of the One Almighty God
Mark 12:28-29
28And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: ( If Jesus came to teach something Trinity, this was the right moment to educate)
John 7:16 So Jesus answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Miracles of Jesus is not a proof of divinity
Acts 2:22
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know ( st Peter who hold the Keys to Heaven is testifying that Jesus is a man approved by God)
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(If False Christ can perform Miracles whats so great that Jesus performed miracles)
Jesus himself did not beleived in Miracles, Matthew 12:39 - An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign
Guys read the story of Lazarus, the Christians are boasting that Jesus gave life to the dead, it is very clear in John 11:40-44
40Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
41Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. 44And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
Remarks: after reading the Lazarus story does it sounds like a Prophet seeking Gods Aid or a Co-God seeking another Co-Gods aid.
Description of God according to the Bible
Job 25:4-6
4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. 6How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?
this is a beautiful description of mans incapability to be comparred with God Almighty
Any Person who perform In Jesus Name is sinful
Matthew 7: 21-22
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.\
(may I ask who does prophesing in the name of Jesus, who do wonderful works in the name of Jesus, who cast out devils in the name of Jesus, i dont think it is the Jews, Hindus or Muslims its you Christians)
Jesus his Teaching of the One Almighty God
Mark 12:28-29
28And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: ( If Jesus came to teach something Trinity, this was the right moment to educate)
John 7:16 So Jesus answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Miracles of Jesus is not a proof of divinity
Acts 2:22
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know ( st Peter who hold the Keys to Heaven is testifying that Jesus is a man approved by God)
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
(If False Christ can perform Miracles whats so great that Jesus performed miracles)
Jesus himself did not beleived in Miracles, Matthew 12:39 - An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign
Guys read the story of Lazarus, the Christians are boasting that Jesus gave life to the dead, it is very clear in John 11:40-44
40Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
41Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.
42And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. 44And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.
Remarks: after reading the Lazarus story does it sounds like a Prophet seeking Gods Aid or a Co-God seeking another Co-Gods aid.
Description of God according to the Bible
Job 25:4-6
4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
5 Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight. 6How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?
this is a beautiful description of mans incapability to be comparred with God Almighty
Any Person who perform In Jesus Name is sinful
Matthew 7: 21-22
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.\
(may I ask who does prophesing in the name of Jesus, who do wonderful works in the name of Jesus, who cast out devils in the name of Jesus, i dont think it is the Jews, Hindus or Muslims its you Christians)
Jeremy Mason
Well-Known Member
17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Who is John talking about?
nawab
Active Member
I dont understand, how many verses did i posted why should your one verse superceed all these verses which are posted by me and Yousaf. You should beleive in the bible as a whole not one or two verses. so it still doesnt say that he is God or Co-God, it didnt say he is Divine, if God can save Lazarus through Jesus why cant God save Jesus directly. the main problem with your translations are that you are not looking at a jewish book like a Jew, you are looking at it with Greek and Roman glasess. this book the bible contains alot of eastern mettaphyssis (eastern expressions which the europeans have no expirience to, If you look at it with Jewish glasses there wont be any problem
Jeremy Mason
Well-Known Member
Ok-- how would jews define "the First and the Last"?
Here's another
Rev 1:8
8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
How would the Jews define "Alpha and the Omega", "Lord God" or "Almighty"?
Jeremy Mason
Well-Known Member
Jesus Appears to Thomas
24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it." 26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
nawab
Active Member
this is just an expression my brothers like when you say something stupid and i will say my God what are you saying. i do say to you my God but i am not calling you God understand this the Eastern way of expression out of supprise, i have said before you are not familiar with eastern expressions.
Even if Jesus was called my Lord and my God, did Jesus said OK i accept. dont quote verses first tell me about the verses above first and then you quote new verses i gave about 10 verses you give 2 verses. first you have to remove my misconception and then you have to indoctrinate me with a new idea. This is how you do things, explain the above verses and then quote new ones. Jesus is being called a worm in Job 25 and you are saying a worm is God.
Jesus did not blessed his words and his testimony he said you are blessed because you have seen Jesus (in simple english not his testomony was blessed but his sight he saw Jesus and beleived he was alive not that he was God) it is simple and clear.
Please clarify who wrote the Book of Revelations and when was it written
Even if Jesus was called my Lord and my God, did Jesus said OK i accept. dont quote verses first tell me about the verses above first and then you quote new verses i gave about 10 verses you give 2 verses. first you have to remove my misconception and then you have to indoctrinate me with a new idea. This is how you do things, explain the above verses and then quote new ones. Jesus is being called a worm in Job 25 and you are saying a worm is God.
Jesus did not blessed his words and his testimony he said you are blessed because you have seen Jesus (in simple english not his testomony was blessed but his sight he saw Jesus and beleived he was alive not that he was God) it is simple and clear.
Please clarify who wrote the Book of Revelations and when was it written
Popeyesays
Well-Known Member
The Revelation of John is not a Gospel, and the voice of Jesus is not recorded in that book of the Bible--just John's vision "in the spirit".
Regards,
Scott
nawab
Active Member
We all are first and last our our own after me there wont be a second me, like you after you there wont be a second you. every one from Adam to the last person who will be born before day of reckoning will all be the first and the last. I hope this part is clear, eastern expressions,
kai
ragamuffin
but its ok to claim the temple mount because of mohameds dream?
nawab
Active Member
No, we dont claim the temple Mount because of Muhammad PBUHs Dream we want it because we conqured it from the Christians, Sorry we didnt conqured it the Christians surrendered it and left.
We have defended the land from Christian forces ever since, no matter it was the Popes forces, Richard the lion heart we send them back to England and france. it should be our land now. Can any muslim today claim Spain as his homeland.
Later we gave reffuge to the Homeless pityful Jews because they were kicked around in Europe and half of their families were massacred by Nazis, so we opened our doors and paid for the crimes of the Germans and europeans. In return these reffugges come and claim our lands. and when we fight back for our home we are labeled as terrorists. sorry we dont claim it we own it and inshallah we will get it back.
We have defended the land from Christian forces ever since, no matter it was the Popes forces, Richard the lion heart we send them back to England and france. it should be our land now. Can any muslim today claim Spain as his homeland.
Later we gave reffuge to the Homeless pityful Jews because they were kicked around in Europe and half of their families were massacred by Nazis, so we opened our doors and paid for the crimes of the Germans and europeans. In return these reffugges come and claim our lands. and when we fight back for our home we are labeled as terrorists. sorry we dont claim it we own it and inshallah we will get it back.
Jeremy Mason
Well-Known Member
nawab
Active Member
Why would Jesus correct Thomas when he could understand him absolutely, you didnt understand Thomas the mistake is not from Thomas but from Christians who made it that way to prove thier point no matter how much you try to alter the message of Jesus his main Message will always till eternity be there and that is the First commandment, Thomas is expressing out of supprise my God and my Lord, this is in Frenzy he is saying like today we use the espression Oh my God, and oh my Lord, oh my goodness, we all use these expressions everyday. Just becasue he said in one place doesnt mean that he is God, how about the other verses where he is telling you that he is not the main Hero , the main Hero is God, I(Jesus) turned on the switch but the electricity is coming from the Powerhouse (God almight)> i am sorry if my examples are a bit childesh because my Economics teacher have taught me to keep the examples in Apples and Oranges, they are much easier to understand, i am sure you guys would not mind the words but focus on the message
kai
ragamuffin
its not your land you just said you took it off the christians make up your mind
Bishadi
Active Member
Well Jews, Muslims and Christians each have a variation to what God is to life.
Same problem exists; each claim to be with God is perfection, and to be without God’s presence is hell or the place not to be, when in each rendition God is elsewhere to man’s daily existence; a separate entity of nature, mankind and the universe itself (he created it all).
In a pure reality of existence; all of nature; the universe; all mass, all energy, all time; is the entangled totality of the universe; the total; God.
The alpha-omega, the beginning the ending.
In the East there is a term ‘yin and yang’…. Indicating the interrelation of all things. “when one extreme reaches it peak, it births the seed of its opposite; the continued motion of …” ………… God; Existence; mass and energy within time; (change).
To evolve and develop by learning the knowledge passed down through-out the time of man's words and contributions, then to know the descriptions of both science and theology, then to recognize the interrelation of all things can be real in actually physical truth.
This interrelation of all things can be viewed in any environment. From the lion and tiger in its habitat, to the birds the bees, in theirs. All cycles of interrelation between life, the environment and time, is all of the existence of God; the total; in time.
As time progresses, evolution exists as a pure form of life’s purpose; to continue. We eat to continue, we associate to continue, we make love to continue all within the total environment of existence; God.
The primary difference is neither of the Abrahamic sects shares any relation to nature as being in relation to God. Mankind created the idea that man is above, better and to make his own use of nature. Need anyone share how incorrect that is? Just look at what western ideals have done to our earth.
Since reality exists in nature pure and true, then any isolation from nature and the perfect interrelation with God; is a self prescribed isolation in itself. Any rendition given by man to suggest we are above or better than is simply creating a barrier within the minds of people isolating them from reality; the truth.
Remember mankind 'created' every word ever written. And in true form JC nor Mohammed ever read a single page or book that claims them to be any more special than any other man ever born.
The difference is they both choose to contribute what knowledge was availible at the time with the eyes of compassion between man, nature and god but no man is above another in any manner except by his own ability to choose. The contributors give of their own energy for others; and as you read the work, see their ever lasting life.
Each live in what they do!
alexander garcia
Active Member
The letter (J) is about 400 years old. That is a fact. Or is there any one that can dispute that? So are you all saying that you think that some one 1600 earlier was named JESUS?
Bishadi
Active Member
Does that apply to Jews? Judaism, Jisrael and the josen ones?