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Did Jesus Commit Suicide?
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
No. Just a simple one word answer!
Jesus was crucified by the Romans at the order of Pontius Pilate. According to Gospel accounts, Jewish religious leaders had considered His claim to be the Son of God blasphemous and he was handed over to the Romans.
Did He know He was going to be put to death? According to Gospel accounts, almost certainly. Is that the same as someone who knowingly ends their own life through suicide? I don't believe it is.
Jesus was crucified by the Romans at the order of Pontius Pilate. According to Gospel accounts, Jewish religious leaders had considered His claim to be the Son of God blasphemous and he was handed over to the Romans.
Did He know He was going to be put to death? According to Gospel accounts, almost certainly. Is that the same as someone who knowingly ends their own life through suicide? I don't believe it is.
PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
I don't understand the question, really.
74x12
Well-Known Member
He offered Himself up. It's like saying a secret service agent is suicidal if he takes a bullet for the president ... Politics aside we can agree it's a heroic act.
Firemorphic
Activist Membrane
Interesting. When it comes to Christianity, this is kinda the case.
Darkforbid
Well-Known Member
Good idea Skwim. The US can mine the Mexican border. That way border deaths are their own fault.
Think of the benefits:
No Wall
No massive detention centres
Extra food for the local wildlife
Less Mexicans
Hilarious YouTube videos
You're a genius Skwim. Anybody have Trumps email?
Think of the benefits:
No Wall
No massive detention centres
Extra food for the local wildlife
Less Mexicans
Hilarious YouTube videos
You're a genius Skwim. Anybody have Trumps email?
No; the Sanhedrin chose to put him to death (Matthew 26:3-4), then got the Romans to do their dirty work; thus cutting them off, by breaking the Abrahamic, and Sinai Covenant (Zechariah 11), and placing the Curse of Moses onto them (Deuteronomy 28).
In my opinion.
And politics aside, we can agree that it's only heroic because the person trying to shoot the President is trying to commit an evil act.
Edit: IOW, praise for Jesus's sacrifice implies condemnation of God's "sin debt" system.
Edit 2: the heroism of the story is less apparent when the would-be assassin and the secret service agent are the same person.
I'd say yes, similar to the idea of "suicide by cop."
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
Jesus Christ might have very well been a law abiding Galilean citizen who didn't deserve to have Jews get him killed by crucifixion. Hence, the "suicide by cop" is not a good analogy in this case.
Technically not, since someone else carried out the act of killing. He didn't do it himself. Plus, he came back to life, so he wasn't really dead.
Seems like you may be under the mistaken impression that I believe that in "suicide by cop" cases, the person necessarily deserved to be killed and necessarily wasn't law-abiding. I don't.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
Imo, anybody who poses a serious threat to the life of a law enforcement officer deserves to end up being taken down by a hail of gunfire.
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That's not exactly true.
Even the Jews have called themselves sons of God. (John 8:41)
Also in the Old Testament the Jews and also the angels are called sons of God.
Jesus was not executed because he called himself a Son of God, but because he claimed to be God himself.
(John 10:33)
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
One must also consider what Jesus meant by "Son of God". The term "Son of God" can be interpreted as a title or literally. And Jesus meant it literally; and just as the Son of Man is man, so also the Son of God is God.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
He stood on a hillside over looking the Holy City
and said something about the place......killing it's prophets
He likely knew how the next Passover would play out
and clearing the Temple as He did was not a casual......Hi there!
Mark's Jesus, at the least, says early in his ministry that it's going to end in tears.
The gospel Jesuses all refuse the chance to make a dash for the hills as the threat takes shape.
As Judas says in Jesus Christ, Superstar, You used me, Jesus.
Jesus' death was intrinsic to the plot from the beginning.
Choosing to die when you don't have to is suicide, I'd say.
Why it was necessary ─ why an omnipotent God would think it was a good idea ─ is wholly opaque.
What it actually achieved in practical terms ─ what was different afterwards ─ is also wholly opaque.
Why the image of a man being tortured to death is such a popular token is yet again wholly opaque.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
The Resurrected Jesus Christ might have been tortured into subconsciousness rather than killed by Crucifixion; if He were to have known He'd regain consciousness after His crucifixion, then He wouldn't have been suicidal.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
There is no greater act of love and compassion than the Resurrected Christ allowing Himself to be rendered unconscious for a few days out of eternity in order to briefly feel some intense human pain and suffering by crucifixion. Hence, Jesus Christ allowing Himself to get crucified was not a suicidal act.
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TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
In the "suicide by cop" scenario, there need not be any actual threat to anybody.
Instead, a law-abiding citizen who understand how police officers work and think, can abuse "normal procedure" and cause police to shoot at him, without that police officer, or anyone else, ever being really in danger.
For example, strap a fake bomb around your waste and pretend you're going to blow it up.
Nothing bad is every going to happen. But you can be quite certain that a sniper will take you out the second he can.
Now, considering the christian lore, christ came explicitly and intentionally to become "sacrificed for our sins". So he knew exactly what was going to happen and knew exactly which virtual buttons to push to make Romans arrest and crucify him.
So yes, I'ld say it is the exact same as intentional "suicide by cop".
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
Suicide by cop happens when somebody provokes the police into taking action against the suicide-by-cop provocateur's life; hence, the suicide-by-cop provocateur deserves being killed by the police. Jesus Christ didn't provoke the Romans into rendering him unconscious by crucifixion, it was some nasty Jews who'd provoked the Romans into crucifying Jesus Christ.