Did Jesus Commit Suicide?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Imo, anybody who poses a serious threat to the life of a law enforcement officer deserves to end up being taken down by a hail of gunfire.

I'm not really interested in debating the merits of police shootings with you. The reason I brought up the idea of "suicide by cop" is that the Gospel story has a lot of the key elements:

- Jesus had options available. He could have avoided being killed if he had wanted to.
- Jesus let himself be presented to the authorities in a way that he expected to result in his death.

 

[Jainarayan]

Imo, anybody who poses a serious threat to the life of a law enforcement officer deserves to end up being taken down by a hail of gunfire.

The threat may not be real but if there's a perceived threat, the officer has act to preserve his or her own life. Hiding a toy gun behind one's back and then quickly brandishing it at the officer will get you killed. Mission accomplished if you're suicidal. But there was never a threat to the officer's life.

 

[Salvador]

I'm not really interested in debating the merits of police shootings with you. The reason I brought up the idea of "suicide by cop" is that the Gospel story has a lot of the key elements:

- Jesus had options available. He could have avoided being killed if he had wanted to.
- Jesus let himself be presented to the authorities in a way that he expected to result in his death.

If there were a Resurrected Christ knowing He'd likely be rendered unconscious rather than killed by Crucifixion, then there is no argument that the Resurrected Christ had behaved like a suicide-by-cop provocateur. Right?

 

[ChristineM]

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That's it. Just a simple four word question.

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The Jesus as depicted in the bible knew the consciquences of his actions. Given the political situation in the middle east 2000 years ago that was committing suicide, yes.

 

[Abdemem]

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That's it. Just a simple four word question.

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The reply you find it in the holly Quran
Sourat 5

157. And for their saying, “We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the Messenger of God.” In fact, they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them as if they did. Indeed, those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it, except the following of assumptions. Certainly, they did not kill him.

158. Rather, God raised him up to Himself. God is Mighty and Wise.

159. There is none from the People of the Scripture but will believe in him before his death, and on the Day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If there were a Resurrected Christ knowing He'd likely be rendered unconscious rather than killed by Crucifixion, then there is no argument that the Resurrected Christ had behaved like a suicide-by-cop provocateur. Right?

What on Earth are you talking about?

I have no idea where you're getting this "He'd likely be rendered unconscious rather than killed" stuff from, and Jesus wasn't resurrected until after the crucifixion.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I would say "no."

Knowing you're going to die in a certain way does not automatically make something "suicide" simply because you let fate progress to the moment of your death.

For example, cancer patients. They may know that cancer is going to take them. Does their death then become a suicide because they knew when and how they were going to die? No. The cause of their death was not themselves, but the cancer. Just as Jesus' supposed crucifixion death was not caused by himself but by those that took him.

Had the Romans been smarter, they would have locked Jesus away in a tower somewhere as a prisoner for life. And on top of that treated him to lavish foods, drink, women, and any other finery befitting a material-world king. Every day, you let him know that his sentence is life-long. Eventually, I believe any man would ultimately give up resisting, if he knew that was going to be his "prison" until his dying day.

 

[Abdemem]

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That's it. Just a simple four word question.

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Suicide is forbidden by God to all human kind, so how can a Prophet does it?
Sourate 5

29. O you who believe! Do not consume each other’s wealth illicitly, but trade by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves, for God is Merciful towards you.

 

[Darkforbid]

The Jesus as depicted in the bible knew the consciquences of his actions. Given the political situation in the middle east 2000 years ago that was committing suicide, yes.

So if a mountaineer dies on climb, it's suicide. Not a tragedy. If a firefighter dies on the job, it's suicide. Not someone's heroic sacrifice, attempting to save life and property. And using the suicide by cop example. An Officer gets killed in a suicide by cop incident, it's suicide. Your right after all they all knew the risks. Maybe I'm wrong then secular morality is of higher ethical value

 

[David J]

I would say "no."

Knowing you're going to die in a certain way does not automatically make something "suicide" simply because you let fate progress to the moment of your death.

For example, cancer patients. They may know that cancer is going to take them. Does their death then become a suicide because they knew when and how they were going to die? No. The cause of their death was not themselves, but the cancer. Just as Jesus' supposed crucifixion death was not caused by himself but by those that took him.

Had the Romans been smarter, they would have locked Jesus away in a tower somewhere as a prisoner for life. And on top of that treated him to lavish foods, drink, women, and any other finery befitting a material-world king. Every day, you let him know that his sentence is life-long. Eventually, I believe any man would ultimately give up resisting, if he knew that was going to be his "prison" until his dying day.

The cancer analogy is flawed, because Jesus could've easily stopped his own execution.

 

[74x12]

And politics aside, we can agree that it's only heroic because the person trying to shoot the President is trying to commit an evil act.

Edit: IOW, praise for Jesus's sacrifice implies condemnation of God's "sin debt" system.

Edit 2: the heroism of the story is less apparent when the would-be assassin and the secret service agent are the same person.

Well let's take the story of Daniel in the lion's den for example. The king actually likes Daniel and is sad; but because of the law of Medes and Persians he is forced to agree to put Daniel in the lion's den.

So, God doesn't want anyone to die. But because the Law is unalterable therefore it must be done. According to the scriptures it was the devil that had the power of death. (Hebrews 2:14) But God overcomes the grave through Jesus. Jesus is the "Word of Life" that is the Word that speaks by the resurrection. That's when the commandment is given for Jesus to be raised up. Giving Him power over death so He can also raise up anyone who believes in Him.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

The cancer analogy is flawed, because Jesus could've easily stopped his own execution.

And how would he have done so? Through God's power? I don't claim to know enough about the situation to assume that he had it - though I suppose he did supposedly walk on water, multiply food stuffs, turn water into wine, and come back from the dead and float off into space.

 

[ChristineM]

So if a mountaineer dies on climb, it's suicide. Not a tragedy. If a firefighter dies on the job, it's suicide. Not someone's heroic sacrifice, attempting to save life and property. And using the suicide by cop example. An Officer gets killed in a suicide by cop incident, it's suicide. Your right after all they all knew the risks. Maybe I'm wrong then secular morality is of higher ethical value

Did you actually read my post? Have you got any comprehension of the political situation in Judea 2000 years ago?

Obviously not because it is not really a big thing in the bible is it?

 

[robocop (actually)]

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That's it. Just a simple four word question.

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That's a really good question!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well let's take the story of Daniel in the lion's den for example. The king actually likes Daniel and is sad; but because of the law of Medes and Persians he is forced to agree to put Daniel in the lion's den.

So, God doesn't want anyone to die. But because the Law is unalterable therefore it must be done. According to the scriptures it was the devil that had the power of death. (Hebrews 2:14) But God overcomes the grave through Jesus. Jesus is the "Word of Life" that is the Word that speaks by the resurrection. That's when the commandment is given for Jesus to be raised up. Giving Him power over death so He can also raise up anyone who believes in Him.

So when the law was put in place, was God:

- powerless to stop the law from having implications he didn't want,
- lacking in the foresight needed to see that it would have implications he didn't want, or
- okay with all of the law's implications at the time?

 

[David J]

And how would he have done so? Through God's power? I don't claim to know enough about the situation to assume that he had it - though I suppose he did supposedly walk on water, multiply food stuffs, turn water into wine, and come back from the dead and float off into space.

I get this from reading Matthew 26, especially 26:53 (NIV):

Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?

Saying he can stop the arrest, and further implying, his execution.

 

[viole]

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That's it. Just a simple four word question.

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Nope.

Suicide means killing yourself. And people that kill themselves stay dead.

Since He knew, by His own words, that He would return after a few days, I would not promote what He did to suicide. That would be an insult to the memory of all those desperate people who really killed themselves.

Ciao

- viole

 

[CaptainA13579]

Ok. Let's take the actual definition of suicide, and compare it to the scenario. Suicide is killing yourself on purpose, dying at your own hand. (suicide - Dictionary Definition)

Now did Jesus die by his own hand? No. So there's your answer.

The definition of a martyr (Someone who suffers, or is even killed, for his or her political or religious beliefs) better fits Jesus. (martyr - Dictionary Definition)

Logically, we can conclude that Jesus did not in fact, commit suicide, but rather became a martyr.

 

[Skwim]

Suicide is forbidden by God to all human kind, so how can a Prophet does it?
Sourate 5

29. O you who believe! Do not consume each other’s wealth illicitly, but trade by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves, for God is Merciful towards you.

God also condoned slavery,

Ephesians 6:9
9 And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no favoritism with him.​

so should people enslave others? I don't think so. I think god is wrong here. And if he can be wrong here he can be wrong elsewhere as well.

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[Skwim]

Nope.

Suicide means killing yourself. And people that kill themselves stay dead.

Who says so? The fact is, Jesus is considered to have died.

Matthew 27:48-50
48 Quickly, one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled the sponge with sour wine and tied the sponge to a stick. Then he used the stick to give the sponge to Jesus to get a drink from it. 49 But the others said, “Don’t bother him. We want to see if Elijah will come to save him.”

50 Again Jesus cried out loudly and then died.
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Died means dead.

1 Corinthians 15:4
He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures said.​

So, whether he stayed dead or not is immaterial to one killing themselves.


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