Did jesus committ suicide or not?

[Brickjectivity]

I would imagine if he committed suicide and you are christian you should be happy. After all then all your sins are forgiven according to christian beliefs.

However, why would you then be upset that he died?

If he didn't committ suicide, then your sins aren't forgiven based on christian beliefs.

Although I don't think you are making a serious post, I'll comment on how things work in the Christian world not because I think you need an answer (you really don't need an answer and aren't really asking), but because I'm probably going to get sucked into this conversation sooner or later anyway. Its my hubris. Jesus gives up his life as a martyr, so God is supposed to be pleased with his death. Suicide is a different issue and is when someone kills themselves for various other reasons. The state churches call suicide a terrible sin. It is not always agreed upon whether it is a sin or to what degree it is sinful, but people generally agree that suicide should be prevented.

Being upset about Jesus death is the human point of view. Its sad when someone suffers and dies. The divine point of view is considered to be "It pleased God to bruise him" (obviously from Isaiah 53). This leads many people to think Jesus is mentioned in Isaiah. I strongly deny that, but I do think it is used as the explanation of why Jesus is struck by God when he has done no wrong.

If he didn't commit suicide then that's good, because suicide is a terrible way to go. Its completely opposite from the way a good person deserves to die. The best way to die is to live a long life full of good deeds and happy returns. I don't think anyone should commit suicide though most people experience times when they feel tempted.

 

[Karl R]

Suicide by cop is still suicide.

It's the 25th anniversary of Tiananmen Square. I'm sure you've seen the iconic picture of the man standing in front of the tanks.

Was he committing suicide by tank? Or was he standing up for what he believed in, was he trying to change his society, even if it cost him his life?

Were Mohandas Gandhi's followers trying to commit suicide when they made no attempt to protect themselves from being hit in the head with clubs? Or were they risking themselves through their nonviolent protests in a way which changed India forever?

What about Tyler Doohan, an 8-year-old who saved several of his family members from a fire, but died trying to save his disabled grandfather. Did he commit suicide by fire?

These were people who risked their lives for something that mattered to them, even though they knew they might (or would) die for it. Do you really see all these actions as suicide?

 

[CMike]

Did the guy before the tank ask G-D why have you forsaken me?

If he did, it means he really didn't want to die.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

While I do see many flaws or evils in Christianity, I can defend this - because he died selflessly. He didn't actually want to die (otherwise he would've lost nothing and it wouldn't be a sacrifice), so I don't think it suits the term suicide. Otherwise everyone who smokes cigarettes, snorts coke, dying for the continued lives of people, would be suicide under that definition, which makes the tword really stretched out an meaningless.

 

[idav]

Jesus had some sort of power to get off the cross, he stayed on there to kill himself. That or it was more accurate when he said that his father had forsaken him and his father killed him, not allowing him off the cross. He did turn himself in not sure he coulda known but he was supposed to m be psychic so all in all its suicide. Similar to suicide by cop.

 

[McBell]

I would imagine if he committed suicide and you are christian you should be happy. After all then all your sins are forgiven according to christian beliefs.

However, why would you then be upset that he died?

If he didn't committ suicide, then your sins aren't forgiven based on christian beliefs.

YEs, Jesus commited suicide:

Suicide: The act of causing ones own death.
Suicide may be positive or negative and it may be direct or indirect.
Suicide is a positive act when one takes ones own life.
Suicide is a negative act when one does not do what is necessary to escape death such as leaving a burning building.

Suicide is direct when one has the intention of causing ones own death, whether as an end to be attained, or as a means to another end, as when a man kills himself to escape condemnation, disgrace, ruin, etc.

Suicide is indirect (and not usually called suicide) when one does not desire it as an end or a means, but when one nevertheless commits an act which courts death, as in tending someone with SARS knowing that they may well succumb to the same illness.

Source
​

 

[idav]

While I do see many flaws or evils in Christianity, I can defend this - because he died selflessly. He didn't actually want to die (otherwise he would've lost nothing and it wouldn't be a sacrifice), so I don't think it suits the term suicide. Otherwise everyone who smokes cigarettes, snorts coke, dying for the continued lives of people, would be suicide under that definition, which makes the tword really stretched out an meaningless.

I am not sure having a good reason to sacrifce yourself makes a difference. Like I suicide bombed myself to save a hundred people, does that mean it isnt suicide, maybe it is a worthy cause.

 

[McBell]

Did Rabbi Akiva commit suicide?

Yes

when the high priest made the sacrifice for the sins of the nation on the annual day of atonement, did the bull commit suicide?

Did the Bull allow itself to be killed or was it forced to die against its will?

It's the 25th anniversary of Tiananmen Square. I'm sure you've seen the iconic picture of the man standing in front of the tanks.

Was he committing suicide by tank?

Yes

Or was he standing up for what he believed in, was he trying to change his society, even if it cost him his life?

Yes.

Were Mohandas Gandhi's followers trying to commit suicide when they made no attempt to protect themselves from being hit in the head with clubs?

Yes

Or were they risking themselves through their nonviolent protests in a way which changed India forever?

yes

What about Tyler Doohan, an 8-year-old who saved several of his family members from a fire, but died trying to save his disabled grandfather. Did he commit suicide by fire?

yes

These were people who risked their lives for something that mattered to them, even though they knew they might (or would) die for it. Do you really see all these actions as suicide?

Yes.


It is not my fault that you dislike the word "suicide" because you associate the word with negativity.

 

[Sleeppy]

Yes


Did the Bull allow itself to be killed or was it forced to die against its will?


Yes


Yes.


Yes


yes


yes


Yes.


It is not my fault that you dislike the word "suicide" because you associate the word with negativity.

I agree. It's the negative connotation people are hostile towards.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I am not sure having a good reason to sacrifce yourself makes a difference. Like I suicide bombed myself to save a hundred people, does that mean it isnt suicide, maybe it is a worthy cause.

There are many ways to view "suicide" but I personally don't believe allowing people to kill you is necessarily suicide.

 

[idav]

There are many ways to view "suicide" but I personally don't believe allowing people to kill you is necessarily suicide.

Thats why I used a term earlier, suicide by cop. It has to be done right, you have to know they will shoot you once you try and draw a gun. If the suspect were just getting a piece of gum then not so much.

 

[Estro Felino]

I would imagine if he committed suicide and you are christian you should be happy. After all then all your sins are forgiven according to christian beliefs.

However, why would you then be upset that he died?

If he didn't committ suicide, then your sins aren't forgiven based on christian beliefs.

Jesus didn't want to suffer and die like a criminal- Caiaphas killed him, and he will be judged in the Afterlife for doing that.

Saint Paul surely invented the story that Jesus died to save us from sin deliberately. But that's because Paul was a sinner, and he hoped to be saved for Christ's merits, not for his own.

Pelagianism fortunately claims a more rational vision: that is, Jesus came to Earth to teach us love. He was killed and his death is for reminding us that we all are supposed to sacrifice for our neighbor's happiness.
Because we strive for our happiness: right, but we have to strive for our neighbor's happiness too. In the same measure.

 

[Estro Felino]

There are many ways to view "suicide" but I personally don't believe allowing people to kill you is necessarily suicide.

Precisely. He just respected Caiaphas' free will.
It was up to Caiaphas, not to Jesus.
Then tell me, Christians. If Jesus wanted to let Caiaphas kill him, then

1) why was he hiding while staying in Jerusalem?
2) why did he order his disciples to remain awake and protect him, while he was praying in Gethsemane?
3) Did he say to Caiaphas: "Kill me!"?

 

[Sleeppy]

Precisely. He just respected Caiaphas' free will.
It was up to Caiaphas, not to Jesus.
Then tell me, Christians. If Jesus wanted to let Caiaphas kill him, then

1) why was he hiding while staying in Jerusalem?
2) why did he order his disciples to remain awake and protect him, while he was praying in Gethsemane?
3) Did he say to Caiaphas: "Kill me!"?

Did the lamb of God tell his disciples to take up their cross and follow him? And did he affirm God's will, at Gethsemane?

 

[CMike]

Precisely. He just respected Caiaphas' free will.
It was up to Caiaphas, not to Jesus.
Then tell me, Christians. If Jesus wanted to let Caiaphas kill him, then

1) why was he hiding while staying in Jerusalem?
2) why did he order his disciples to remain awake and protect him, while he was praying in Gethsemane?
3) Did he say to Caiaphas: "Kill me!"?

Excellent questions.
The answer is obvious he didn't want to be killed.

 

[CMike]

Did the lamb of God tell his disciples to take up their cross and follow him? And did he affirm God's will, at Gethsemane?

Lambs don't talk. They are animals.

 

[idav]

Excellent questions.
The answer is obvious he didn't want to be killed.

Right a person sacrificing themselves is doing it for the benefit of the people being saved, not the benefit of the sacrifice.

 

[Sleeppy]

Lambs don't talk. They are animals.

But serpents and donkeys do? Don't respond.

 

[Sleeppy]

Right a person sacrificing themselves is doing it for the benefit of the people being saved, not the benefit of the sacrifice.

Exactly. People act like they have no critical thinking skills whatsoever.. Most people don't go to war wanting to be killed, but to protect others from being killed.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Thats why I used a term earlier, suicide by cop. It has to be done right, you have to know they will shoot you once you try and draw a gun. If the suspect were just getting a piece of gum then not so much.

Unlike Jesus, though, the person would have to influence the cop to shoot them.

Jesus, on the other hand did not intentionally influence them to crucify him. Sure his actions were the reason why they crucified him, but he did not perform those actions for the sole purpose of dying, he performed those actions to spread the word.

He did not act to get killed is what I'm saying, people simply killed him for crimes, and he allowed them to. He did not make them.