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Did Jesus create mankind?

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
On the pretext of what Trinitarians say (That Jesus is God):
  1. Did Jesus Christ ever say that he created mankind?
  2. Did Jesus create his own human self?
  3. Why was Jesus ‘sweating blood’ at the thought that the Father might not be able to raise him from the dead
  4. Why did Jesus INHERIT the created world for his rulership if he was the one that created it
 

Eddi

Christianity
Premium Member
Did Jesus Christ ever say that he created mankind?
Jesus is "The Word"

And according to John 1: 1-3

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

So based on that, I would say that Jesus did ultimately create humankind as humankind comes under "all things" which were made "through him"

Did he actually say this??? - I don't think so, but I think the author of John is very much suggesting this
Did Jesus create his own human self?
I think it's possible

Maybe Jesus specifically chose to be born in ancient Israel as opposed to some other place and time?

If Jesus was destined to die on the cross for humankind's sin then it would make sense for that event to be very carefully planned

I don't know about your other two questions :)
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
An apostle says that God is the Father of Jesus Christ:
  • “We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Col 1:3)
How is Jesus ‘God’ if ‘God’ is his Father?

Jesus is not called ‘The Father’… in fact, he says he was SENT (to deliver the testimony of the Father) by the Father! So did he send himself to deliver his own testimony?

And after delivering the testimony he went to the Father:
  • ‘Father, I have given them the testimony you gave me to give to them … and now I am coming to you!’
And the opening verse of the book of Revelation states a similar theme:
  • ‘The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants’ (Rev 1:1)
Did Jesus create mankind… did Jesus create anything?

The term ‘Father’ means:
  • ‘He who creates’
  • ‘He who brings into being’
  • ‘He who gives life’
Yet Jesus is never called ‘Father’ in relation to creation. He is never called ‘Father’ as meaning ‘the Creator’, nor as one who brings anything into being.

The only reference to Jesus as ‘Father’ pertains to the end of time where Jesus grants ‘EVERLASTING LIFE’ to those whom he judges worthy for the new world. These ones are raised from the dead, judged, and given immortal lives by Jesus Christ. It does not, in any way, pertain to anything to do with ‘Creation’ or ‘In the beginning’! But, as the one who ‘Gives life’ to those who are saved at the judgement seat, he is classed as ‘Eternal life giver’- ‘Eternal Father’.
 
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Eddi

Christianity
Premium Member
How is Jesus ‘God’ if ‘God’ is his Father?
See this image:

shield-of-trinity-meaning.jpg
Jesus is God and The Father is also God

But Jesus and The Father are different from each other

Although they are both God

The Father is the father of The Son, that is the relationship between The Father and The Son

That's how I'd go about explaining it
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
On the pretext of what Trinitarians say (That Jesus is God):
  1. Did Jesus Christ ever say that he created mankind?
No! Nobody asked him that question.

2 Did Jesus create his own human self?
Nobody asked him that question

Why was Jesus ‘sweating blood’ at the thought that the Father might not be able to raise him from the dead

You assume that Jesus was deeply distressed about retuning from the dead when in fact he never said that!
Only the human body of the Son died, he waited 3 days and retuned in a new form as he said that he would.


Why did Jesus INHERIT the created world for his rulership if he was the one that created it
After completing the requirement of living the human life of one of his own created beings, Jesus was given unquestioned sovereignty.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
See this image:

View attachment 76825
Jesus is God and The Father is also God

But Jesus and The Father are different from each other

Although they are both God

The Father is the father of The Son, that is the relationship between The Father and The Son

That's how I'd go about explaining it
All that diagram says is that each of the three are not each other… you could add that Satan is not the Father, Satan is not the son, Satan is not the Holy Spirit but even so THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS THREAD QUESTION IS ASKING…!!

If the only way Trinitarians can defend their faith is to present a nonsense diagram then it all the more proves that trinity is indefensible.

Please try to stick to the questions asked in the header - at least even got the opening few pages!!!
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
On the pretext of what Trinitarians say (That Jesus is God):

No! Nobody asked him that question.


Nobody asked him that question



You assume that Jesus was deeply distressed about retuning from the dead when in fact he never said that!
Only the human body of the Son died, he waited 3 days and retuned in a new form as he said that he would.



After completing the requirement of living the human life of one of his own created beings, Jesus was given unquestioned sovereignty.
Who gave him unquestioning sovereignty? A higher authority? Satan said it was his to give to whom he wills…!!
 

Eddi

Christianity
Premium Member
All that diagram says is that each of the three are not each other… you could add that Satan is not the Father, Satan is not the son, Satan is not the Holy Spirit but even so THAT IS NOT WHAT THIS THREAD QUESTION IS ASKING…!!

If the only way Trinitarians can defend their faith is to present a nonsense diagram then it all the more proves that trinity is indefensible.

Please try to stick to the questions asked in the header - at least even got the opening few pages!!!
You asked a question to which I responded, you asked about The Father and The Son with regard to the trinity

The original text has been captured and is at the top of post number 4

Your exact words were:

How is Jesus ‘God’ if ‘God’ is his Father?

And trying to be helpful, I answered

You have since edited the question to which I provided the answer - so that it is no longer asking that question

And now you're shouting at me and are making absurd statements about Satan

You're being very unreasonable and rude and are acting as though you're nuts

My ignore list currently has two people on it

In a moment one more will be added to it

You are about to join a very tiny elite

Goodbye.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Who gave him unquestioning sovereignty? A higher authority? Satan said it was his to give to whom he wills…!!
The Universal Father gave his Son unquestioned authority over his own jurisdiction. Much more has been revealed in the Urantia Book revelation about all of this. IMOP
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
You asked a question to which I responded, you asked about The Father and The Son with regard to the trinity

The original text has been captured and is at the top of post number 4

Your exact words were:

How is Jesus ‘God’ if ‘God’ is his Father?

And trying to be helpful, I answered

You have since edited the question to which I provided the answer - so that it is no longer asking that question

And now you're shouting at me and are making absurd statements about Satan

You're being very unreasonable and rude and are acting as though you're nuts

My ignore list currently has two people on it

In a moment one more will be added to it

You are about to join a very tiny elite

Goodbye.
Please do add me to your list. Sounds great…Oh, I hope you reach number one again after your dramatic fall to the bottom.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
The Universal Father gave his Son unquestioned authority over his own jurisdiction. Much more has been revealed in the Urantia Book revelation about all of this. IMOP
The Father gave the son a ’Room’ in His ‘Mansion’ … is that what you are saying: ‘In my fathers house there are many rooms. I go to prepare a place (a room in that house) for you’!
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
The Father gave the son a ’Room’ in His ‘Mansion’ … is that what you are saying: ‘In my fathers house there are many rooms. I go to prepare a place (a room in that house) for you’!
No, the Father delegates creative powers and authority to subordinate deities, creator Sons. Our creator Son was Christ Michael who came down from heaven and lived the human life while subject to the will of the Father as we are asked to do.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
No, the Father delegates creative powers and authority to subordinate deities, creator Sons. Our creator Son was Christ Michael who came down from heaven and lived the human life while subject to the will of the Father as we are asked to do.
Michael (Mich-El) ???
Isn’t the angel, Michael, a the military leader of the angelic armies of God?

Or is there another Micha-El that the scriptures doesn’t talk about?
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
No, the Father delegates creative powers and authority to subordinate deities, creator Sons. Our creator Son was Christ Michael who came down from heaven and lived the human life while subject to the will of the Father as we are asked to do.
So who was it who said: ‘I created all things BY MYSELF!’

YHWH or Michael?
 

SDavis

Member
On the pretext of what Trinitarians say (That Jesus is God):
  1. Did Jesus Christ ever say that he created mankind?
  2. Did Jesus create his own human self?
  3. Why was Jesus ‘sweating blood’ at the thought that the Father might not be able to raise him from the dead
  4. Why did Jesus INHERIT the created world for his rulership if he was the one that created it
John 1:1-14 says it for Jesus that he created everything.
John 8:48-59 Jesus did say before Abraham was I Am - I Am is the English translation for Yahweh.
Luke 1:35 the Holy Spirit and the power of the most high (who is God our Father) came upon Mary...... And just like man can impregnate a virgin these days through artificial insemination just think of the ways God would have.

Who says Jesus sweated blood at the thought that our Father wouldn't raise him fake theology ...... Jesus knew his time had come - he knew what he had to go through - he was beat with leather belts with metal balls or spikes on it (what the Romans used in scourging) - he had a huge Thorn pressed on his head - he was pierced in his side - and to top it all off he was nailed to a cross in both hands and feet. How would you fare if you knew this was about to happen to you????? His human body suffered and he felt every bit of that pain. And from what one knows of Roman history he was unrecognizable.
Why did Jesus sweat blood in the Garden of Gethsemane? | GotQuestions.org

The word inherit is just a human term to get a point across. And that point separates God our Father from God The Son and the Holy Spirit which is mentioned quite often in the Old Testament every time the words the Spirit of the Lord is used. ...... Genesis says let *us* make man - John says nothing was created without him.
God our Father is over everything as Jesus said so many times. He also said in my Father's house are many mansions and he's not talking about buildings - he's talking about the infinity of space and universes within it, which the Bible calls heavens. It all belongs to Jesus given to him by our Father. Jesus is Lord, God, King, over all things - decreed by God our Father who is Spirit

What is cloning - man learned the lesser technology of cloning. Think of what our Father can do **who is Spirit.** Let's not forget that Jesus is the spoken Word of God. How to see and possibly understand **Our Father cloned/spoke himself into physical existence and that physical existence created all things - from the visible universe _ to the angels who can be visible and are invisible _ to what life is on Earth and everything else out there that man will never know about as long as he's in these flesh bodies.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
Michael (Mich-El) ???
Isn’t the angel, Michael, a the military leader of the angelic armies of God?

Or is there another Micha-El that the scriptures doesn’t talk about?
Michael is mentioned in the Book of Revelation.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
So who was it who said: ‘I created all things BY MYSELF!’

YHWH or Michael?
That means that the Universal father created by delegating the task to his sons. Like Bill Gates is the founder of Microsoft but delegated all sorts of work to subordinates.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
John 1:1-14 says it for Jesus that he created everything.
John 8:48-59 Jesus did say before Abraham was I Am - I Am is the English translation for Yahweh.
Luke 1:35 the Holy Spirit and the power of the most high (who is God our Father) came upon Mary...... And just like man can impregnate a virgin these days through artificial insemination just think of the ways God would have.

Who says Jesus sweated blood at the thought that our Father wouldn't raise him fake theology ...... Jesus knew his time had come - he knew what he had to go through - he was beat with leather belts with metal balls or spikes on it (what the Romans used in scourging) - he had a huge Thorn pressed on his head - he was pierced in his side - and to top it all off he was nailed to a cross in both hands and feet. How would you fare if you knew this was about to happen to you????? His human body suffered and he felt every bit of that pain. And from what one knows of Roman history he was unrecognizable.
Why did Jesus sweat blood in the Garden of Gethsemane? | GotQuestions.org

The word inherit is just a human term to get a point across. And that point separates God our Father from God The Son and the Holy Spirit which is mentioned quite often in the Old Testament every time the words the Spirit of the Lord is used. ...... Genesis says let *us* make man - John says nothing was created without him.
God our Father is over everything as Jesus said so many times. He also said in my Father's house are many mansions and he's not talking about buildings - he's talking about the infinity of space and universes within it, which the Bible calls heavens. It all belongs to Jesus given to him by our Father. Jesus is Lord, God, King, over all things - decreed by God our Father who is Spirit

What is cloning - man learned the lesser technology of cloning. Think of what our Father can do **who is Spirit.** Let's not forget that Jesus is the spoken Word of God. How to see and possibly understand **Our Father cloned/spoke himself into physical existence and that physical existence created all things - from the visible universe _ to the angels who can be visible and are invisible _ to what life is on Earth and everything else out there that man will never know about as long as he's in these flesh bodies.
You are very confused. The question was simply ‘DID JESUS say that HE created …’

It is simple: No he never ever stated nor even insinuated or suggested any such thing. Instead, Jesus, and scriptures calls God, the Father. And, of course, ‘Father’, means ‘Creator’, ‘He who gives life’, ‘He that brings into being’

Then another error for you. Jesus sweated blood BEFORE the day he was tortured, scourged, humiliated, spat upon, and ‘hung from a tree’ (which the romans knew was an ultimate humiliation to a Jew and his family!). No! You appear to miss out the part where Jesus says: ‘Father, if there could be another way!’… that’s not talking about being those things - DEATH is what Jesus momentarily feared. Jesus had raised other people from the dead… temporarily…. Those people later died again!!! Jesus’ resurrection was totally unknown as this would be a PERMANENT resurrection. A sinless man CANNOT DIE..!!! Jesus ‘died’ because God removed the Holy Spirit from him since Jesus took upon himself the sins of the world… he was numbered among the sinful - but God suffered not to see his body decay and raised him up again in three days.

What you did was to leave out what happened and just focus on something that was not even a part of the act at the time. What should a believer say, then, when he is faced with a far more gruelling threat like being torn alive by a deliberately starved lion pack? If you believe that God will raise you up again then why would you find a few moments of pain distressing (You’ll be dead in moments as the first lion will bite your neck - if you didn’t die of shock before the lion even touched you!) Were not other Christian’s flayed and skinned on drums with increasing blade depths or tarred and set alight to act as ‘human candles’ for the amusement of the romans? What do you mean by Jesus sweated blood because he feared scourging and having a crown of thorns on his head…!! Do not say if ‘I WOULD…!’ God did not fill me with the fullness of the Holy Spirit… if he did then I could walk through fire or sleep underwater unsupported, or … you should get it….

No! It’s the DEATH that Jesus feared hence his cry out to the ‘only One that could save him’ his Father, God almighty!!:
  • “During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.” (Hebrews5:7)
 
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Muffled

Jesus in me
On the pretext of what Trinitarians say (That Jesus is God):
  1. Did Jesus Christ ever say that he created mankind?
  2. Did Jesus create his own human self?
  3. Why was Jesus ‘sweating blood’ at the thought that the Father might not be able to raise him from the dead
  4. Why did Jesus INHERIT the created world for his rulership if he was the one that created it
Jesus did not create mankind. God in Jesus did.
Jesus did not create Himself. God in Jesus did.
I believe this statement is not factual. It never happened. Jesus seated blood because the body does not like pain or death.
I am not sure what you are talking about but I can say possession requires physicality and Jesus has that and the Father does not.
 
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