Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

[Subduction Zone]

That would be like you realizing that you can breathe without air - My point these remarks is that he should be able to support his claims when his dealing with requirement of truth. My other concern though is - is evidence a prerequisite for(your) faith Mr Sub?

Wrong again. Your beliefs are artificial. They are a product of your brain. Now you are only demonstrating that you refuse to reason rationally. That was the point of my question. It quickly tells us if one is talking to a person that can reason or not.

And I do not have faith. That is your failing not mine.

 

[KelseyR]

So can you proof that He existed and died the way portrayed by biblical scripts? Because if you can then we have a start but if you can't then there was no purpose in publishing His existence to begin with.

If you reread my statement you will see that I said "if he existed". Please pay more attention before questioning the worth of what I say.

 

[Spartan]

I see that you cannot remember what you wrote. Earlier you posted this:

"Sir all 3 contradictory Abrahamic beliefs contain His existence in some of their manuscript,"

That is why I asked where Jesus was mentioned in a Jewish text. He was not. He did not fulfill the messianic prophecies which is why early Christian writers had to invent their own prophecies. For example the Virgin Birth prophecy. That failed on several levels. First in the original if did not say "virgin" it was based upon a Greek mistranslation". Second it was not a prophecy, but history. An event that had already happened. And it failed since Jesus was never known as Emmanuel. He was only called that by Christians that went "oops" more than a hundred years after the fact.

What a load of hooey! Messianic Jews will gladly hand you a long, laundry list of Old Testament Messianic prophecies about Jesus, but I have no doubt you'll kick them all to the curb based on your lack of understanding.

Second, the Virgin birth prophecy was correct. There's no other word in Judaism that signifies a young, unmarried, virtuous maiden, than almah. Rebekah was a virgin and was also known as an almah. So almah was correct. If you have another Hebrew word that you think should have been used instead, then trot it out and I'll show you what's wrong with it.

And there's plenty of churches named "Church of Emmanuel" where they call Jesus Emmanuel by name and sing songs in which Jesus is Emmanuel. So that part of the prophecy was also fulfilled.

Once again, you haven't done your homework.

 

[sooda]

The Roza Bal or Rouza Bal or Rozabal is a shrine located in the Khanyar quarter in Downtown area of Srinagar in Kashmir, India. The word roza means tomb, the word bal mean place. Locals believe a sage is buried here, Yuzasaf or Yuz Asaf, alongside another Muslim holy man, Mir Sayyid Naseeruddin. The shrine was relatively unknown until the founder of the Ahmadiyya movement, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, claimed in 1899 that it is actually the tomb of Jesus. This view is maintained by Ahmadis today, though....

Roza Bal - Wikipedia

 

[Subduction Zone]

What a load of hooey! Messianic Jews will gladly hand you a long, laundry list of Old Testament Messianic prophecies about Jesus, but I have no doubt you'll kick them all to the curb based on your lack of understanding.

Then we must not have any here since they cannot seem to do so. And please, no false accusations. You are the one that has trouble understanding the Bible.

Second, the Virgin birth prophecy was correct. There's no other word in Judaism that signifies a young, unmarried, virtuous maiden, than almah. Rebekah was a virgin and was also known as an almah. So almah was correct. If you have another Hebrew word that you think should have been used instead, then trot it out and I'll show you what's wrong with it.

Bethulah. Almah only means young woman. Bethulah specifically means virgin. The author of that prophecy used both. The Greek Septuagint was in error:

Betulah (Virgin) vs Almah (Young Woman) - We Are Israel Blog

See, I knew you would demonstrate that your understanding was inferior.

And there's plenty of churches named "Church of Emmanuel" where they call Jesus Emmanuel by name and sing songs in which Jesus is Emmanuel. So that part of the prophecy was also fulfilled.

Yes, and that proves my point. They are only named that because of the failed prophecy. There is no record of him being called that during his lifetime. This is a bonus. I did not expect you to mess up twice.

Once again, you haven't done your homework.

Oh my!! There goes another irony meter!

 

[Spartan]

Bethulah. Almah only means young woman. Bethulah specifically means virgin. The author of that prophecy used both. The Greek Septuagint was in error:

Betulah (Virgin) vs Almah (Young Woman) - We Are Israel Blog

See, I knew you would demonstrate that your understanding was inferior.

Betulah? ROTFLOL.

"An almah in ancient Judaism was always considered a virgin unless there was compelling evidence against her virginity. And you cannot necessarily use the Hebrew word "betulah" instead (which can be an older woman, and since a betulah in Joel 1:9 is a married woman). The only word in Hebrew (besides possibly naarah) that can really signify a young maiden virgin is almah. Also, nowhere in Scripture is an almah seen as one who has lost her virginity."

Not only that, but if you think betulah is unambiguous for virgin, then you have to explain how and why the King's concubines were referred to as betulah's even AFTER they had dropped trou and shacked up with the king in Esther chapter 2? Almah clearly doesn't have the baggage that your betulah's have in Scripture.

What's more, when betulah is used in reference to Rebekah as a virgin (in Genesis chapter 24) it came with the qualifier "nor had any man known her." The qualifier wasn't necessary when almah was used in reference to her as a virgin.

Finally, when the JEWISH RABBIS translated the Tanakh into the Greek (Greek Septuagint) THEY used the Greek word for virgin - parthenos - in Isaiah 7:14. That's the word from which we get the Parthenon - you know - the Temple of the Virgin Athena! LOL!

And you claim my understanding is inferior? LOL. You bought the farm with this latest fiasco of yours.

Yes, and that proves my point. They are only named that because of the failed prophecy. There is no record of him being called that (Emmanuel) during his lifetime. This is a bonus. I did not expect you to mess up twice.
Oh my!! There goes another irony meter!

That's another screw up on your part. The prophecy didn't state he had to be called that DURING HIS LIFETIME.

So, you're 0-2 is his post. Why? Because you haven't done your homework.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Betulah? ROTFLOL.

"An almah in ancient Judaism was always considered a virgin unless there was compelling evidence against her virginity. And you cannot necessarily use the Hebrew word "betulah" instead (which can be an older woman, and since a betulah in Joel 1:9 is a married woman). The only word in Hebrew (besides possibly naarah) that can really signify a young maiden virgin is almah. Also, nowhere in Scripture is an almah seen as one who has lost her virginity."

Not only that, but if you think betulah is unambiguous for virgin, then you have to explain how and why the King's concubines were referred to as betulah's even AFTER they had dropped trou and shacked up with the king in Esther chapter 2? Almah clearly doesn't have the baggage that your betulah's have in Scripture.

What's more, when betulah is used in reference to Rebekah as a virgin (in Genesis chapter 24) it came with the qualifier "nor had any man known her." The qualifier wasn't necessary when almah was used in reference to her as a virgin.

Finally, when the JEWISH RABBIS translated the Tanakh into the Greek (Greek Septuagint) THEY used the Greek word for virgin - parthenos - in Isaiah 7:14. That's the word from which we get the Parthenon - you know - the Temple of the Virgin Athena! LOL!

And you claim my understanding is inferior? LOL. You bought the farm with this latest fiasco of yours.



That's another screw up on your part. The prophecy didn't state he had to be called that DURING HIS LIFETIME.

So, you're 0-2 is his post. Why? Because you haven't done your homework.

You failed again. You had to stop to apologists and not actual scholars. Liars for Jesus are never very convincing.

And yes, Hebrew scholars translated that verse and screwed up. That happens quite often with translations when the knowledge of one of the languages is not perfect. The error has been recognized since then. And if read n context the passage clearly did not apply to Jesus. Quote mining is a form of lying.

and seriously you do not understand how the Emmanuel prophecy failed? Your understanding of the Bible is inferior because you cannot afford to understand it.

 

[Spartan]

You failed again. You had to stop to apologists and not actual scholars. Liars for Jesus are never very convincing.

And yes, Hebrew scholars translated that verse and screwed up. That happens quite often with translations when the knowledge of one of the languages is not perfect. The error has been recognized since then. And if read n context the passage clearly did not apply to Jesus. Quote mining is a form of lying.

and seriously you do not understand how the Emmanuel prophecy failed? Your understanding of the Bible is inferior because you cannot afford to understand it.

You screwed up badly. Your so-called virgin betulahs were getting pounded by the king in Esther chapter 2. Your so-called virgin betulah in Joel 1:8 is an OLD MARRIED WOMAN. She's probably been copulating and having intercourse for decades.

And you're claiming victory?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You screwed up badly. Your so-called virgin betulahs were getting pounded by the king in Esther chapter 2. Your so-called virgin betulah in Joel 1:8 is an OLD MARRIED WOMAN. She's probably been copulating and having intercourse for decades.

And you're claiming victory?

Of course you lost. You had to use failed sources. I am sorry that your understanding of the Bible is so poor. The women in Esther were, please note the past tense. virgins when they were found. Now it appears that you failed your sex ed class as well. Women that have not had sex are virgins. Only after they have had sex are they no longer virgins. Let me help you with the verses that you did not understand again:

"2 Later when King Xerxes’ fury had subsided, he remembered Vashti and what she had done and what he had decreed about her. 2 Then the king’s personal attendants proposed, “Let a search be made for beautiful young virgins for the king. "

The women that he chose were virgins at the time. If you read further you would see that on average it was six months before they shacked up with the King. And here is where the sex ed part comes in, once they were getting pounded by the king, they were no longer virgins.

It is rather amazing that you do not understand the Bible at all.

 

[Spartan]

Of course you lost. You had to use failed sources. I am sorry that your understanding of the Bible is so poor. The women in Esther were, please note the past tense. virgins when they were found. Now it appears that you failed your sex ed class as well. Women that have not had sex are virgins. Only after they have had sex are they no longer virgins. Let me help you with the verses that you did not understand again:

"2 Later when King Xerxes’ fury had subsided, he remembered Vashti and what she had done and what he had decreed about her. 2 Then the king’s personal attendants proposed, “Let a search be made for beautiful young virgins for the king. "

The women that he chose were virgins at the time. If you read further you would see that on average it was six months before they shacked up with the King. And here is where the sex ed part comes in, once they were getting pounded by the king, they were no longer virgins.

It is rather amazing that you do not understand the Bible at all.

That's pathetic. Your betulahs were putting out like a gum ball machine. One was an OLD MARRIED WOMAN (not a young maiden) who had been married for some time. And those are your young maiden virgins? LOL.

You need a lot of help with your theology.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's pathetic. Your betulahs were putting out like a gum ball machine. One was an OLD MARRIED WOMAN (not a young maiden) who had been married for some time. And those are your young maiden virgins? LOL.

You need a lot of help with your theology.

They are not my virgins. That was the way it was back then. It is sad that you do not understand your own holy book. You were wrong. You tried to put a false definition on "almah". It only means 'young maiden". It says nothing about where she was a hooker or a saint. And since Mary messed around on Joseph it looks like she was not a saint.

 

[Spartan]

They are not my virgins. That was the way it was back then. It is sad that you do not understand your own holy book. You were wrong. You tried to put a false definition on "almah". It only means 'young maiden". It says nothing about where she was a hooker or a saint. And since Mary messed around on Joseph it looks like she was not a saint.

You were busted. Betulahs can be OLD WOMEN. Copulating old women.

And God choosing Mary to bring forth the Savior and Messiah is not "messing around on Joseph." That's incredibly tacky on your part.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You were busted. Betulahs can be OLD WOMEN. Copulating old women.

And God choosing Mary to bring forth the Savior and Messiah is not "messing around on Joseph." That's incredibly tacky on your part.

They can be old women. They can't be copulating old women. It looks like we might have to go through sex ed for you all over again.

Do you know what the word "virgin" means?

And you forgot that a good part of the Bible is myth. I am not the one with the rather disturbing attitude towards sex.

You really should be asking yourself if the writer of the non-prophecy (remember it was not about Jesus in the first place, read it in context) thought that this would be virgin birth, then why didn't he use the word that clearly meant "virgin"?

And seeing how you denigrated actual virgins multiple times I am far from being the tacky one here.

 

[Spartan]

They can be old women. They can't be copulating old women. It looks like we might have to go through sex ed for you all over again.

Do you know what the word "virgin" means?

And you forgot that a good part of the Bible is myth. I am not the one with the rather disturbing attitude towards sex.

You really should be asking yourself if the writer of the non-prophecy (remember it was not about Jesus in the first place, read it in context) thought that this would be virgin birth, then why didn't he use the word that clearly meant "virgin"?

And seeing how you denigrated actual virgins multiple times I am far from being the tacky one here.

<facepalm>

One other thing: How would one of your old, copulating betulahs be a "SIGN" for the House of David? A sign in the Bible is normally an unusual, supernatural event. A young virgin with child fulfills that sign. Your tired old hussies don't.

 

[Subduction Zone]

<facepalm>

One other thing: How would one of your old, copulating betulahs be a "SIGN" for the House of David? A sign in the Bible is normally an unusual, supernatural event. A young virgin with child fulfills that sign. Your tired old hussies don't.

I see that that sex ed lesson still has not kicked in.

They were virgins until they had sex. When found they were virgins. Why is that such a hard concept to understand? Do you believe the myth that Mary was a virgin for all of her life? That is not even biblical. Your facepalming privileges have been revoked since you don't understand 6th grade intro to human relationships.

 

[SkepticThinker]

What a load of hooey! Messianic Jews will gladly hand you a long, laundry list of Old Testament Messianic prophecies about Jesus, but I have no doubt you'll kick them all to the curb based on your lack of understanding.

Second, the Virgin birth prophecy was correct. There's no other word in Judaism that signifies a young, unmarried, virtuous maiden, than almah. Rebekah was a virgin and was also known as an almah. So almah was correct. If you have another Hebrew word that you think should have been used instead, then trot it out and I'll show you what's wrong with it.

And there's plenty of churches named "Church of Emmanuel" where they call Jesus Emmanuel by name and sing songs in which Jesus is Emmanuel. So that part of the prophecy was also fulfilled.

Once again, you haven't done your homework.

Yeah in modern times, by people who have read the OT and could name their church whatever they wanted. In other words, it's a self-fulfilled prophecy. By these standards, if I order a steak dinner at a restaurant and then a waiter brings me a steak dinner later on, then we have just fulfilled a prophecy.
That's pretty lame, as far as prophecies go, don't you think?

 

[Spartan]

Yeah in modern times, by people who have read the OT and could name their church whatever they wanted. In other words, it's a self-fulfilled prophecy. By these standards, if I order a steak dinner at a restaurant and then a waiter brings me a steak dinner later on, then we have just fulfilled a prophecy.
That's pretty lame, as far as prophecies go, don't you think?

"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14

 

[SkepticThinker]

"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14

Is that your serious answer?

 

[Spartan]

Is that your serious answer?

What - you think that Biblical morality is the pits? Yeah, that's why you're in the dark.

 

[Spartan]

I see that that sex ed lesson still has not kicked in.

They were virgins until they had sex. When found they were virgins. Why is that such a hard concept to understand? Do you believe the myth that Mary was a virgin for all of her life? That is not even biblical. Your facepalming privileges have been revoked since you don't understand 6th grade intro to human relationships.

Anything more to you would only be continuing to suffer your folly. You don't learn and you haven't done your homework.