adilrockstar
Active Member
Sunstone said:
He died to redeem all of humanity.
Some choose not to accept His sacrifice.
God Bless
Adil
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Did Jesus Die For Everyone's Sins Or Only For Those Who Believe In Him?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
He died to redeem all of humanity.
Some choose not to accept His sacrifice.
God Bless
Adil
While many thoughts and views are posted, I believe the answer must come from the Scriptures. Here are a number of applicable ones:
John 1:29 "Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." RSV
1 John 2:2 "And He is the propitiatory shelter concerned with our sins, yet not concerned withe ours only, but concerned with the whole world also." CV
Rom.5:6 "For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly."
2 Cor. 5:14ff "For the love of Christ urges us on, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died. And he died for all, so that those who live might live no longer for themselves, but for him who died and was raised for them."
2 Cor. 5:18ff "All this is from God who reconciled us to himself through Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us."
1 Tim. 2:6 "Who gave himself a ransome for all..."
Heb. 2:9 "...that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."
NOTE: It is important to know that the word "for", as in the verses above, is from the Greek word "huper"==on behalf of; not "anti"==over against, or instead of. It is unfortunate that in English "for" has been used for both of the Greek words.
SO, Christ did not die instead of us, or in place of us; He died on our behalf, which, to me, clarifies a number of contradictions.
Bick
John 1:29 "Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." RSV
1 John 2:2 "And He is the propitiatory shelter concerned with our sins, yet not concerned withe ours only, but concerned with the whole world also." CV
Rom.5:6 "For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly."
2 Cor. 5:14ff "For the love of Christ urges us on, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died. And he died for all, so that those who live might live no longer for themselves, but for him who died and was raised for them."
2 Cor. 5:18ff "All this is from God who reconciled us to himself through Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us."
1 Tim. 2:6 "Who gave himself a ransome for all..."
Heb. 2:9 "...that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."
NOTE: It is important to know that the word "for", as in the verses above, is from the Greek word "huper"==on behalf of; not "anti"==over against, or instead of. It is unfortunate that in English "for" has been used for both of the Greek words.
SO, Christ did not die instead of us, or in place of us; He died on our behalf, which, to me, clarifies a number of contradictions.
Bick
arielmessenger
Member
Paul's genius was his melding the Greco-Roman Mystery Religious belief system with the Jewish Messianic expectations. And it has worked wonders for millions of people in need of this type of spiritual authority figure and doctrine in order to straighten out their personal lives, i.e., the power of the Mystery Religion's vicarious atonement belief system to make a person feel "cleansed of sins" and "born again". It was one of the major reasons Mystery Religions enjoyed several centuries of popularity in the Greco-Roman world and one of the main reasons why Christianity took off within this cultural milieu as opposed to the Jewish one which continued to resist the pull of the new "Jewish" Mystery Religion, Christianity.
But for those who are unable to feel any spiritual satisfaction with the irrational idea that "believing" a story of a dying/resurrection god-man can somehow make you a better person with a free ticket to heaven, God has supplied a new meaning for the sacrificial death of Jesus. A meaning that brings knowledge of why John in ignorance but still in spiritual receivership to the Spirit of Christ as he has his Jesus say, [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
I will explain in another thread why this is so as it has nothing to do with believing in the death and resurrection story of Jesus. This has to do with the concept of the Messiah and the messianic role Jesus modeled for all human beings but for men especially since it is with men that major social problems arise.
[/FONT]
But for those who are unable to feel any spiritual satisfaction with the irrational idea that "believing" a story of a dying/resurrection god-man can somehow make you a better person with a free ticket to heaven, God has supplied a new meaning for the sacrificial death of Jesus. A meaning that brings knowledge of why John in ignorance but still in spiritual receivership to the Spirit of Christ as he has his Jesus say, [FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
I will explain in another thread why this is so as it has nothing to do with believing in the death and resurrection story of Jesus. This has to do with the concept of the Messiah and the messianic role Jesus modeled for all human beings but for men especially since it is with men that major social problems arise.
[/FONT]
yippityyak
Member
But that still doesnt sound right. Jesus supposedly died for everyones sins, he did it because he loved us so much. And that once it was done, everyone would recieve the Holy Spirit to guide them in their faith. I think I was sick that day because I still aint got no Holy Spirit! And it is not to say that I have not tried. I have been involved in a Christian Church for over a year now and as hard as I try I cant seem to have the same experiences as others do.
What I am saying is, why is it that it was for everyone, but not everyone benefits? Do you not think the Prison Warders would have kicked them out of the prison? Its the same as saying that when you get a Tax Rebate, you are too scared to collect the money so you dont benefit from the extra cash! It doesnt make sense to me, and sounds like a story you tell to a child.
And what of the healing of sickness, where an athiest is cured of an illness and a Christian tells them that God healed them and "look what God can do in your life"? What of other Athiests? Was he a part of God's chosen? Was he just lucky (my theory)? And what about mass prays to heal the sick, why are they not healed? Why are they left sick and dying, even though they believe with all their hearts and souls that God exists and will heal them?
It all seems like a wierd selection process to me, where people talk of Gods Chosen People. If you are not part of Gods Chosen People, then how can he heal you if you choose to believe in him? You cant choose to believe in him if he hasnt chosen you! He is God, you cant change his mind on his Chosen People!
As far as I am concerned, if you are not a part of his Chosen People, you dont get into heaven. How is that fair, you cant change that to better your chances of getting into heaven! I keep hearing Chosen People, it wasnt for everyone. It was for a select few.
What I am saying is, why is it that it was for everyone, but not everyone benefits? Do you not think the Prison Warders would have kicked them out of the prison? Its the same as saying that when you get a Tax Rebate, you are too scared to collect the money so you dont benefit from the extra cash! It doesnt make sense to me, and sounds like a story you tell to a child.
And what of the healing of sickness, where an athiest is cured of an illness and a Christian tells them that God healed them and "look what God can do in your life"? What of other Athiests? Was he a part of God's chosen? Was he just lucky (my theory)? And what about mass prays to heal the sick, why are they not healed? Why are they left sick and dying, even though they believe with all their hearts and souls that God exists and will heal them?
It all seems like a wierd selection process to me, where people talk of Gods Chosen People. If you are not part of Gods Chosen People, then how can he heal you if you choose to believe in him? You cant choose to believe in him if he hasnt chosen you! He is God, you cant change his mind on his Chosen People!
As far as I am concerned, if you are not a part of his Chosen People, you dont get into heaven. How is that fair, you cant change that to better your chances of getting into heaven! I keep hearing Chosen People, it wasnt for everyone. It was for a select few.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
writer said:
This is only a part of the picture. You cannot use one verse to nullify the numerous verses that state that access to that propitiation (atoning sacrifice) comes through belief/faith in Christ.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
tlcmel said:
Because the wages of sin is death so unless you wish to pay for your own sins then Christ offered His sinless life as payment.
I'm sorry - just to clarify - are you implying that the man, Jesus of Nazareth, never existed? Or are you refering to the Christ of faith? If it's the former, what evidence do you have to back this up? (I realize this isn't related to the OP - perhaps you could start a new thread or point me in the direction of a thread that discusses thiswanderer085 said:
)29 This is only a part of the picture.
Cuz there're 2 questions in the OP
You cannot use one verse to nullify...
Din't.
Answered 1st q
access to that propitiation (atoning sacrifice) comes through belief/faith in Christ.
amen. Only thru faith in Christ. Answers the 2nd. Thanx
Cuz there're 2 questions in the OP
You cannot use one verse to nullify...
Din't.
Answered 1st q
access to that propitiation (atoning sacrifice) comes through belief/faith in Christ.
amen. Only thru faith in Christ. Answers the 2nd. Thanx
Mickey Mouse
Member
If anyone has read the Bible, we know that only those who believe in Him go to Heaven.
Please tell just where you found that verse, I have heard of going to heaven all my 70yrs and I searched the bible over and over and over(Could go on to add nausem) and haven't found it!
The one, most of you call God said no man has entered into heaven except he who came down from heaven. Does this apply to you?
The Lamb of God took away the sins of the world, one catch, you must give up idol worship and turn to the one God. El Shaddai he is your Yeshua!
Jn. 5 :24 & Heb. 10:26-31
Shalom
UnityNow101
Well-Known Member
If you must believe in Jesus to be saved, then He did not die for the whole world as most Christians would say. He either died for the sins of the WHOLE world, or the whole theory about Him dying for the world is flawed.
I believe that NO man dies for the sins of another. Jesus died because the wicked men at the time did not see the truth that Jesus was revealing to them. Their hearts were hardened to the truth and they would not accept it. They were afraid of His new message that put their very livelihood on the line. How are they going to line their pockets with great wealth when there is a teacher proclaiming that the material things of this world are of no use and that one must give up wealth to inherit all. It scared the teachers of Judaism, which caused them to put Him to death. They killed the body of Jesus out of fear of losing everything that their faith had gained throughout the years, not knowing that it is not the religion and dogmas that are of any use to begin with.
I believe that NO man dies for the sins of another. Jesus died because the wicked men at the time did not see the truth that Jesus was revealing to them. Their hearts were hardened to the truth and they would not accept it. They were afraid of His new message that put their very livelihood on the line. How are they going to line their pockets with great wealth when there is a teacher proclaiming that the material things of this world are of no use and that one must give up wealth to inherit all. It scared the teachers of Judaism, which caused them to put Him to death. They killed the body of Jesus out of fear of losing everything that their faith had gained throughout the years, not knowing that it is not the religion and dogmas that are of any use to begin with.
FFH
Veteran Member
and repent of their sins...
Christ died only for the sins we decide to turn away from...
Also if we don't believe he died for our sins then it has no power to deliver us from past repented sins.
These are the rules/laws which govern the forgiveness of sins...
Also forgiving others plays a big role in our own forgiveness of sins...
worshiper
Picker of Nose
i would like to ask you what sin would that be that it was so great that poor jesus had to be tortured and die? correct me if i'm wrong but i thot the sin was, eating a forbidden fruit. if eating a forbidden fruit is a great sin that can cause you your life, i wonder if someone commits adultery? or making graven images of jesus (as oppose to 10 commandments)? or even not telling the truth?
if you say sin is committing something which is forbidden by god, does that mean every time we commit a sin, we have to die?
how do you define sin? what is sin to you?
p/: this is an honest question, not intended to offend anybody. if ever anyone is offended then my apology in advance.
Mickey Mouse
Member
Can sin simply be disobeying a command of God, and/or falling short of the glory of God?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I've read the Bible. I don't know any such thing.