Did Jesus Ever Claim To Be G-D?

[CMike]

This is similar to an on going thread.

I am curious regarding the answers.

If he did please cite where.

 

[Sunstone]

I've read several scholars who've argued that he never actually claimed to be god. So, this should be an interesting and informative thread. Thanks for starting it!

 

[CMike]

Thank you.

I am curious for the results as well.

 

[Tarheeler]

What? No "It doesn't matter" option?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Yes, Jesus said he was one with God. But he never claimed to be the God Yahweh, the creator god.

 

[CMike]

To those that answer YES, please cite from where?

 

[Skwim]

I have no dog in this fight, but I believe the Bible indicates he gave this impression. Otherwise why the John 10:30 remark?

"The Father and I are one.”
​

and the follow up remark in John 10:33

"They answered, “We do not want to stone you because of any good deeds, but because of your blasphemy! You are only a man, but you are trying to make yourself God!”
​

Now, if the Bible is not in error here, this was the very message Jesus was putting out: he was indeed trying to make himself God. IMO, to say he wasn't would mean the Bible is errant in both John 10:30 and 10:33. Take your pick I guess.

 

[Levite]

This is similar to an on going thread.

I am curious regarding the answers.

If he did please cite where.

According to the Christian scriptures? More or less. Historically? There is no evidence, and my guess is that he likely never said any such thing.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

From our earliest Gospel besides GoMark:

Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am All: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.

Split a piece of wood; I am there.

Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

Jesus is saying that he is the All. He is not claiming to be Yahweh. He is claiming he is the All in All

 

[Pegg]

there is a real spiritual blindness going on among christians... for example, last night I was watching a promo trailer for the new movie 'Son of God' and they were interviewing people who had been to see it at the movies when it was first released.

Everyone said how wonderful the movie was but they kept on calling Jesus 'God'. Comments like 'it was wonderful to see God on the big screen' etc.

But im thinking, the movie itself is called 'SON OF God' so why are they saying Jesus IS God????

The problem is that they've been taught by their religious teachers that Jesus is God, and they dont read their bibles properly.... so their beliefs are based on what they've been 'told' rather then on what they've 'read'

very sad.

 

[Pastek]

He didn't say he's God but what he did and said was coming from God, that's why he said "Me and the Father are one", not in a litteral sense.


Mark 14.32 But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Matthew 13.57 And they took offense at him.But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.”


John 12.49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.

John 5.19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

John 17.3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

And so on ...

If he said he was God and then that he isn't God he would be in contradiction, so it doesn't make sense.

Can even someone do this kind of things to God ? :

14.65 Then some began to spit at him; they blindfolded him, struck him with their fists, and said, “Prophesy!” And the guards took him and beat him.


Of course i voted : no

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

This is similar to an on going thread.

I am curious regarding the answers.

If he did please cite where.

No one followed Jesus around with a tape recorder. gMark was written years after Jesus purported life. How could anyone know with the least confidence what Jesus said or didn't say?

 

[Huey09]

As a unitarian christian and from my own understanding of the bible that would be a no. It seems to have become the mainstream doctrine starting with Paul converting pagan gentiles into the fold who most likely still felt attached to polytheistic tradition and then the Council Of Nicea. Where everyone who disagreed was now a heretic and all right to kill. (Feel free to correct if I'm mistaken)

 

[Sunstone]

What? No "It doesn't matter" option?

Exactly! I once had a professor of Comparative Religions make the interesting point to me that Christianity would be unlikely to go away even if the Vatican itself released tomorrow an authentic letter of Paul's clearly stating it had all been a mistake.

 

[Pegg]

As a unitarian christian and from my own understanding of the bible that would be a no. It seems to have become the mainstream doctrine starting with Paul converting pagan gentiles into the fold who most likely still felt attached to polytheistic tradition and then the Council Of Nicea. Where everyone who disagreed was now a heretic and all right to kill. (Feel free to correct if I'm mistaken)

I think you are mistaken to say that it was Paul who taught that Jesus was God.

Romans 1:1 Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus and called to be an apostle, set apart for God’s good news, 2 which he promised beforehand through his prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3 concerning his Son, who came to be from the offspring of David according to the flesh


1Cor 1:9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

2Cor 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you through us

Galatians 1:15 But when God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through his undeserved kindness, thought good 16 to reveal his Son through me so that I might declare the good news about him to the nations


Colossians 1;13 He rescued us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

1Thess 1;9 For they themselves keep reporting about our first contact with you and how you turned to God from your idols to slave for a living and true God, 10 and to wait for his Son from the heavens, whom he raised up from the dead, namely, Jesus


Hebrews 1:1 Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. 2 Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things. 3 He is the reflection of God’s glory and the exact representation of his very being


Paul Never says that Jesus is God. He always speaks of Jesus as a 'son' of God and even as a 'created' son...the 'firstborn' of all his creations.

 

[idav]

No Jesus didn't claim to be god in the gospels and he argued with Pharisees that claimed he even alluded to it. Not only did he say he was the son of god but pointed to OT scripture that said, ye are all gods, children of the most high.

 

[Tarheeler]

Exactly! I once had a professor of Comparative Religions make the interesting point to me that Christianity would be unlikely to go away even if the Vatican itself released tomorrow an authentic letter of Paul's clearly stating it had all been a mistake.

Yep. I have several Christian friends that, in light of modern scholarship, now believe that whether or not Jesus ever claimed to be God is irrelevant. The myth that surrounds him is enough for them.

 

[arcanum]

there is a real spiritual blindness going on among christians... for example, last night I was watching a promo trailer for the new movie 'Son of God' and they were interviewing people who had been to see it at the movies when it was first released.

Everyone said how wonderful the movie was but they kept on calling Jesus 'God'. Comments like 'it was wonderful to see God on the big screen' etc.

But im thinking, the movie itself is called 'SON OF God' so why are they saying Jesus IS God????

The problem is that they've been taught by their religious teachers that Jesus is God, and they dont read their bibles properly.... so their beliefs are based on what they've been 'told' rather then on what they've 'read'

very sad.

Yes and the director of the film said he based the movie on the Gospel of John, it is only in John's gospel that Jesus makes declarations that could be construed as godlike claims about himself. He makes no such claims about himself in the other three, also John's gospel was the last one to be written so that should say something about it's authenticity.

 

[Pegg]

Yes and the director of the film said he based the movie on the Gospel of John, it is only in John's gospel that Jesus makes declarations that could be construed as godlike claims about himself. He makes no such claims about himself in the other three, also John's gospel was the last one to be written so that should say something about it's authenticity.

i saw on the trailor the clip of Jesus forgiving the sins of a man and the pharisees exclaimed that only God can forgive sins. Is this a 'godlike' claim ?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

No Jesus didn't claim to be god in the gospels and he argued with Pharisees that claimed he even alluded to it. Not only did he say he was the son of god but pointed to OT scripture that said, ye are all gods, children of the most high.

What about the claim he made in Thomas?