Did Jesus exist?

[The magical volleyball]

Jesus Christ was Roman political propaganda used to control Jews that would choose to believe and persecute those who wouldn't. If we look at the evidence at the time we see that j.c. was a far more useful tool than any other. At the time other messiah were more warrior and robin hood like. So if I'm the Roman emperor and I know I can't get rid of the Jewish idea of a messiah, then I will give them one I can live with. Then he extorted Jewish religious authorities to create a fictional messiah that supposedly lived 50 yrs before the stories of him were created (makes fulfillment of prophecies much easier). While they are at, they also make him peaceful and forgiving to snuff rebellions and have Jesus preach benefits of being poor so the Jews don't hate the vast Roman wealth. Then to top it off they have the Jews be a substantial part of his death. This way they don't hate rome for taking away the messiah. This is why Judaism never fully accepted Jesus Christ and saw him for the fraud he is.

 

[arthra]

I am of the opinion a guy called Jesus did exist 2000 years ago, but the gospel accounts of his life are highly exaggerated or pure fantasy.

You may be familiar with the Jesus Seminar...? If not ....you should be as they have been dealing with the question of an historical Jesus for some years...

See:

The Jesus Seminar - Westar Institute

I believe there's enough circumstantial evidence to support a historical Jesus as there are so many references to Him found in a variety of places...in a variety of languages from Coptic to Aramaic Syriac and so on.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You state, "What I am posting is what I find the Bible ( Not secular sources ) teaches," then every word of the Bible is truthful. For a very long time Bible scholars have disputed the inerrancy of The Bible and they have found errors. I believe God is holy and perfect but men who wrote the Bible are not, they are human. Here is an excellent reference for gospel errors and misinformation, Who Wrote the New Testament? by Burton L. Mack. I have research Mark's book and find it to be accurate. I am a scholar, so I can authenticate research material.

To the best of my knowledge Mr. Mack was Not a first-century eye witness.
I am more like the first-century people of Acts of the Apostles 17:11 who research daily the material found between the pages of Genesis through Revelation. If you want, just using one at a time, mention a Mr. Mack's found errors. Error found in Scripture that is.
P.S. KJV added the verses between John 8:1 to 12.
KJV also added the spurious verses after Mark 16:8. Mark chapter 16 ends at verse 8.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Not to mention. Nobody even knows the names of any of the authors who actually wrote them.
Could be just about anybody.

To me the bottom line is that the Bible's penmen's names is Not the issue because according to Scripture at 2 Timothy 3:16-17 God is the Bible's Author. Bible writers wrote down God's thoughts just as a secretary would write down the boss's thoughts. Internal corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages show the internal harmony among the many Bible writers.

 

[Repox]

To the best of my knowledge Mr. Mack was Not a first-century eye witness.
I am more like the first-century people of Acts of the Apostles 17:11 who research daily the material found between the pages of Genesis through Revelation. If you want, just using one at a time, mention a Mr. Mack's found errors. Error found in Scripture that is.
P.S. KJV added the verses between John 8:1 to 12.
KJV also added the spurious verses after Mark 16:8. Mark chapter 16 ends at verse 8.

Mr. Mack is a scholar who did a very good job researching the NT. Historical documents are the best evidence for what really happened with the NT gospels. In the past, not much attention was paid to historical documents. At the time of NT gospels there were fictional stories about Jesus, it seemed to be popular at the time.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus.

I feel more of that emotion reading the Mahabharata and listening to Krishna. Krishna's a better written character.

Yes. Seutonius and Tacitus don't say anything about Jesus. They say more about Christians and their beliefs. So they primarily allow us to say something about what early Christian thought and how the Romans viewed them. As such, they say *nothing* about Jesus himself.

Exactly. Being able to recite the Jedi Code doesn't make Star Wars real.

Jesus was God (the Messiah), but he was too direct with Jews and offended them.

In the end, it didn't matter if he offended Jews, as it was the Romans who had the authority to deal with people they didn't like.

Didn't Suetonius ( c.69-a122 C.E. (A.D.)) say, " ............Chrestus [Chrustus], he [Claudius] expelled Christians from Rome, thus showing Suetonius did Not doubt the existence of Jesus. ( Acts of the Apostles 18:2 )

Anakin, he executed Jedi all over the galaxy, thus showing us there was no doubt about the existence of the Jedi.

Whereas, when people pick up the Bible they read about the good news of God's kingdom government in the hands of Christ Jesus.

God was supposedly running things when "Paradise" was a thing. Look how THAT turned out...

I find Scripture teaches that Matthew is the penman of the gospel according to Matthew.

The bible teaches that humans are untrustworthy too...

So if I'm the Roman emperor and I know I can't get rid of the Jewish idea of a messiah, then I will give them one I can live with.

The funny and ironic thing is, the Roman Empire doesn't fall until after Christianity is legalized ...

I am more like the first-century people of Acts of the Apostles 17:11 who research daily the material found between the pages of Genesis through Revelation.

Didn't realize the apostles could read a book like Revelation before it was even written...

And if we're going to go with "they were eyewitnesses", then how do we have a Creation account at all, since neither Adam, Eve, nor even Moses attended the events?

To me the bottom line is that the Bible's penmen's names is Not the issue because according to Scripture at 2 Timothy 3:16-17 God is the Bible's Author. Bible writers wrote down God's thoughts just as a secretary would write down the boss's thoughts. Internal corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages show the internal harmony among the many Bible writers.

The bible teaches that humans are untrustworthy too...

 

[Augustus]

Jesus Christ was Roman political propaganda used to control Jews that would choose to believe and persecute those who wouldn't. If we look at the evidence at the time we see that j.c. was a far more useful tool than any other. At the time other messiah were more warrior and robin hood like. So if I'm the Roman emperor and I know I can't get rid of the Jewish idea of a messiah, then I will give them one I can live with. Then he extorted Jewish religious authorities to create a fictional messiah that supposedly lived 50 yrs before the stories of him were created (makes fulfillment of prophecies much easier). While they are at, they also make him peaceful and forgiving to snuff rebellions and have Jesus preach benefits of being poor so the Jews don't hate the vast Roman wealth. Then to top it off they have the Jews be a substantial part of his death. This way they don't hate rome for taking away the messiah. This is why Judaism never fully accepted Jesus Christ and saw him for the fraud he is.

The funny side of human psychology where someone can be hypersceptical of things they don't want to believe then mind-numbingly credulous towards some fairy tale that aligns with their worldview...

Your piece of short fiction would be spiced up a bit if it involved the illuminati, a hobgoblin and some magic beans though...

 

[vijeno]

Not when there is an omnipotent God.

Ex absurdo quodlibet.

 

[omega2xx]

Ex absurdo quodlibet.

What a brilliant response. I especially like the evidence you presented.

 

[roger1440]

https://www.indy100.com/article/historians-are-questioning-if-jesus-ever-existed-at-all-7801396

I am of the opinion a guy called Jesus did exist 2000 years ago, but the gospel accounts of his life are highly exaggerated or pure fantasy.

Can you give an example of one of the fantasies?

 

[Desert Snake]

https://www.indy100.com/article/historians-are-questioning-if-jesus-ever-existed-at-all-7801396

I am of the opinion a guy called Jesus did exist 2000 years ago, but the gospel accounts of his life are highly exaggerated or pure fantasy.

I don't really read the NT. I prefer Jewish / non scripture writings.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Mr. Mack is a scholar who did a very good job researching the NT. Historical documents are the best evidence for what really happened with the NT gospels. In the past, not much attention was paid to historical documents. At the time of NT gospels there were fictional stories about Jesus, it seemed to be popular at the time.

I can agree at 1st-century time there were fictional stories floating around about Jesus. Some trying to take credit for what Jesus did. Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30 forewarns about coming false shepherds fleecing the flock of God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Not when there is an omnipotent God.

God is Not omnipotent because there are things God can Not do, such as according to Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:18 God can Not lie.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Because he fulfilled none of the requirements.

If I may take the liberty to add: He (Jesus) fulfilled none of ' their ' requirements.
Many were looking for a ' political ' Messiah to set up God's kingdom government on Earth right then and there.
Whereas, Jesus taught his kingdom rule would be future as described at Luke 19:11-15; Matthew 25:31-33.

 

[Rival]

If I may take the liberty to add: He (Jesus) fulfilled none of ' their ' requirements.
Many were looking for a ' political ' Messiah to set up God's kingdom government on Earth right then and there.
Whereas, Jesus taught his kingdom rule would be future as described at Luke 19:11-15; Matthew 25:31-33.

He fulfilled none of the requirements as stated in the Tanach, in the Prophecies.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

In the end, it didn't matter if he offended Jews, as it was the Romans who had the authority to deal with people they didn't like.
God was supposedly running things when "Paradise" was a thing. Look how THAT turned out...
The funny and ironic thing is, the Roman Empire doesn't fall until after Christianity is legalized ...
Didn't realize the apostles could read a book like Revelation before it was even written...
And if we're going to go with "they were eyewitnesses", then how do we have a Creation account at all, since neither Adam, Eve, nor even Moses attended the events?
The bible teaches that humans are untrustworthy too...

We have the creation account because of Noah. Noah took earth's history book (Genesis 5:1)with him.
In other words, Nothing perishable survived the Flood except for what Noah had with him.
Adam and Eve were humans who proved un-trustworthy. Adam and Eve were entrusted with caring for the paradisical Garden of Eden and they helped turn Earth into a 'Garden of Weeden'.
Yes, look around and we can see how that turned out. Satan and Adam threw a monkey wrench in God's purpose for a beautiful paradisical Earth. That does Not mean God has abandoned His purpose for Earth.
If you were out working in your garden and someone came along and interrupted you, would you abandon your garden, or go back to your garden once the interruption was over. I think people would go back to their gardens.

Revelation is about God going back to the garden. For example: please notice Revelation 22:2.
The apostles, Nor anyone else at that first-century time frame needed to read Revelation because the setting or time frame is for our day according to Revelation 1:10. Besides Revelation was Not written until the end of the first century, and even written before John wrote his gospel account.

Was it Christianity that was legalized, or rather Christendom that was legalized.
Christendom is mostly so-called Christian ' in name only '. ( doesn't follow Jesus' teaching as recorded in Scripture )

Because the Romans had the authority is why Jesus' enemies need to trump up political charges against Jesus such as sedition, treason, and injured majesty so that Jesus could be executed by the Romans.

Since God IS trustworthy, we will see the fulfillment of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 when ' they ' (the powers that be) will be saying. " Peace and Security " as the precursor of the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

He fulfilled none of the requirements as stated in the Tanach, in the Prophecies.

Such as which requirement do you have in mind.

 

[Rival]

Such as which requirement do you have in mind.

Building the Temple.

Bringing world peace.

Reuniting the Jews.

Bringing knowledge of G-d to the whole world.

 

[Repox]

There are several historical documents refuting authorship of the NT gospels. Here is just one of many.

Who Wrote the Four Gospels of the New Testament? An Introduction to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Building the Temple.
Bringing world peace.
Reuniting the Jews.
Bringing knowledge of G-d to the whole world.

I was thinking along the lines of what particular verse you have in mind.
Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 is at the 'final phase' of bringing knowledge of God (His kingdom government) to the world.
Before world peace comes there has to be the global fulfillment of Matthew 24:14 and 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
Even people in remote areas now have access to Scripture in their own mother tongue or native language because modern technology has made possible rapid Bible translation into numerous languages.
After the Temple was destroyed in the year 70 by the Roman armies, the ' Temple ' is for now God's spiritual Temple.