Did Jesus say he was God???

[S-word]

quote=URAVIP2ME; What is God's name? The Tetragrammaton [YHWH] only applies to God not Jesus.

The name YHWH, is translated as "I Am Who I Am," and this is the name that our Lord God and saviour gave to Jesus of Nazareth, who he chose as his heir and successor.

quote=URAVIP2ME; Jesus also prayed that his Father's name should be hallowed, sacred, sanctified.

As do we all when we pray, "Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name. (Who I Am) the name in which he sent his servant Jesus, who spoke in the name of our Lord God and saviour, the only name with the power to save. Blessed is He who came in the name of the Lord.

 

[look3467]

The sheep are those who are devided from the goats, and the goats are all those perverts, murderers, theives, etc, who are cast into the fires of hell where their minds are separated from the eternal soul of God, which is the death of the minds that had developed within the bodies of those perverts, murderers and theives etc, which bodies had already been returned to the universal elements from which they were formed, and the death of their minds, is the second and final death.

Well, I guess from your statement above, grace without works is.........none existent?

For if we are goats, grace does not more abound?

Look, either God gifted us life without works, or try to earn it yourself is what your saying.

As for the name, well, if you want to segregate, divide and propose that the Father be named only as you believe it to be, then everybody else is out.

It is akin to the witnesses demanding that Jehovah be the only proper name to call the Father, and Jesus being........... well just a prophet.

The key to God is love! And in love there is are no divisions.

When I say, I love you Jesus, I am addressing the Father, for Jesus is how I know the Father, and I know the Father for Jesus revealed Him to me.

Now, quibbling over the name of the Father is not in form of the Father, for the Father has revealed Himself in Jesus.

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

There are the works of the Father and there are the works of the Son.

The Fathers works: Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

And The Father rested from His works.

Jesus' works: Joh 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

Jesus also rested from His works of the day, meaning the light that came into the world of darkness,(spiritual darkness) and taketh away the works that were done in darkness because of the light.

Thus the grace of God is gifted.
Amo 5:7 Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth,

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

In simple terms, love Jesus and you'll love the Father.

Blessings, AJ

 

[S-word]

Well, I guess from your statement above, grace without works is.........none existent?

For if we are goats, grace does not more abound?

Look, either God gifted us life without works, or try to earn it yourself is what your saying.

As for the name, well, if you want to segregate, divide and propose that the Father be named only as you believe it to be, then everybody else is out.

It is akin to the witnesses demanding that Jehovah be the only proper name to call the Father, and Jesus being........... well just a prophet.

The key to God is love! And in love there is are no divisions.

When I say, I love you Jesus, I am addressing the Father, for Jesus is how I know the Father, and I know the Father for Jesus revealed Him to me.

Now, quibbling over the name of the Father is not in form of the Father, for the Father has revealed Himself in Jesus.

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

There are the works of the Father and there are the works of the Son.

The Fathers works: Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

And The Father rested from His works.

Jesus' works: Joh 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

Jesus also rested from His works of the day, meaning the light that came into the world of darkness,(spiritual darkness) and taketh away the works that were done in darkness because of the light.

Thus the grace of God is gifted.
Amo 5:7 Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth,

Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

In simple terms, love Jesus and you'll love the Father.

Blessings, AJ

To love me is to love my dog. As I have said before, I am becoming bored with this debate, Jesus did not give his name to our Father "Who I Am," but our Lord God and saviour, "Who I Am" gave his name to the man Jesus, who he chose from among the Israelites and sent him in his Name "Who I Am," to speak in his Name. Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord God our saviour.

 

[Muffled]

If you have been "baptized with/in the Holy Spirit" God has given you a blessing.

You can rightfully claim that as a personal experience, but not one which entitles you to say everything you say is truth.

That is saying that unless we are all baptized as like your self, we have not the Holy Spirit of God in us, thus alienation?

S-sword has his/her views, I have mine and you have yours, yet we all have a healthy respect/love for God which makes us brothers/sisters in God.

If we abide by the two simple commandments given by God to us, where could any of us go wrong?

Tell me what religious view would keep mankind from acknowledging a divinity that is not of this world as the first commandment?

If your thinking about Satanism as an extreme, it is a form of divinity to them.

And tell me if the love for thy neighbor is not a reflection of the first?

Lets break it all down to very simple terms: Lets love God, whom we may know by a particular name, worship Him how our hearts dictate, and reflect that love towards our neighbors.

If we do that, then we are allowing God's Holy Spirit to do His work in the hearts of mankind via our work of love.

We are subject to many varying views about who God is, but God is subject to none.

God looks at the heart of what it is.

Blessings, AJ

I have found it so.

What I claim is that when God speaks through me, He speaks the truth. If I am asking my wife what she wants for supper I don't need to give God control of my tongue and I find that He doesn't insist on doing that.

I would never say that but it has been my experience that people compartmentalize by allowing Jesus to be Lord over some things but not others (and surely it is not necessary for Jesus to be Lord over my tongue when speaking to my wife). Debating tends to lend itself to human ego, so it becomes less likely that a person will allow Jesus to be Lord over their reasoning and speaking while debating. Of course you could believe in determinism ie. God somehow puts words in your mouth without you realizing it. I am sure that happens but I wouldn't depend on it. It is like believing in a miracle without praying for one.

I don't express my views. I am not even sure if I could anymore. I am familiar with the views of men. Paul was a man with a passion for God but he was far from the truth until Jesus changed his viewpoint to His own.

As the saying goes, "The devil is in the details."

An errant one.

A person who loves God should wish to be in harmony with God's viewpoint.

I am sure that is the reason David got away with so much sin. However David was quick to admit when he was wrong as pointed out by God through the prophet Nathan. A person with an open heart towards God will receive what He says.

 

[Muffled]

Quote=Muffled; I have provided scripture and deductions from the scripture. Such things are not imaginations. I can be convinced of things if they are rational. The fact that you won't address the proofs is a victroy for me because you have given up by default.

S-words Response; 2nd letter of John verses 7-10; “Many deceivers have gone out all over the world, people who do not acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being. Such a person is a deceiver and an enemy of Christ.”

Using your rational thinking, please tell us where we would find a teaching that has been spread throughout the entire earth that refuses to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being?

1st letter of John 4:1-3; “My dear friends, do not believe all who claim to have the spirit, (My words are spirit) but test them to find out if the spirit they have comes from God. For many false prophets have gone out everywhere. This is how you will be able to know if it is Gods spirit/word: anyone who acknowledges that Jesus came as a human being has the spirit who comes from God. But anyone who denies this about Jesus, does not have the spirit from God. The spirit that he has is from the enemy of the anointed one, the Anti-christ etc.”

The virgin birth is a lie that was introduced by the deceiving disciples of the enemies of Christ, who refuse to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being.

Quote=Muffled; I am a servant of God and no servant of the devil but by accusing the brethren you qualify.
S-words Response; If you refuse to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being, but believe and preach that he came as some immortal god who was supposed to have been the co=creator of the cosmos, who came down to earth and crawled into the womb of some supposed virgin, where his god, with who he was supposed to have helped create the cosmos, then created for him, in the womb of your imaginary virgin, a humanlike body that was not a descendant of Adam, then you are a servant to the Anti-Christ who refuses to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being.

Quote=Muffled post# 2255; That is about as muddled a statement as I have ever seen. I believe that Jesus has divine Glory because He is God in the flesh; it was not given to him and your statement doesn't prove that it was.

S-words Response; Then you do not believe the word of God which states in Acts 3: 13; “The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers has glorified his servant Jesus.”

If you would care to check your concordance you will find that the Greek word for “Son, Descendant, Offspring,” is not used in Acts 3: 13, instead the Greek word used in this particular verse, means, “A Child (not a descendant,) A Boy, A servant.” But if you choose to accept the KJV, where they have erroneously translated the Greek “wais pais” as “Son,” then you must ask yourself, when was Jesus chosen as the heir and successor to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, “Who I Am”?
This you will find in Hebrew 5: 5-10, “Jesus did not take upon himself the honour of high priest, instead, it was after he had been made perfect through suffering that God declared Jesus to be high priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek, with these words, “You are my Son, TODAY I have become your Father.”

Quote: Muffled; post# 2260; There is no proof that Jesus appeared physically to Paul. There isn't even any proof that Paul actually saw Jesus.

S-words Response; Not only can you not believe or understand that which is written in scripture, you can’t even understand what is said in the posts that you read, this is what I said and which is seen in your post# 2260, Jesus was not a God who became a man, but a man who was created a little lower than the angels and was the first of many brothers who are to be given divine Glory and redeemed from the body of mankind to inherit the glorious bodies in which they will judge even the heavenly beings. There is a physical body, so there must be a spiritual body also, but it is the physical body that comes first, and as we have borne the image of the first Adam, so shall we bear the image of the second Adam who appeared to Saul/Paul on the road to Damascus in his new body of brilliant and blinding light and revealed himself to Saul, as "Jesus of Nazareth."

Now how did you possibly come to the conclusion that I said that Jesus of Nazareth, who appeared to Saul/Paul in his new spiritual body, had actually appeared to Paul in his old physical body?

Paul says, in 1st Corinthians 15; "There is a physical body, so there must be a spiritual body also, but it is the physical body that comes first, and as we have born the image of the first man Adam, so too shall we bear the image of the second man, Jesus was the first fruits to be raised from the dead past of the Son of Man, the first of many brothers, who are created a little lower than the angels then crowned with glory to rule the whole world, even the angelic heavenly beings.

Gnosticism. It claimed that God was too exalted to take on a human form so the form must have been divine and not human.

This is rubbish. You are basically calling God a liar. The virgin birth is stating that Jesus is God coming in the flesh. For you to say otherwise, you are saying that God did not come in the flesh.

Here is exactly where you have misconstrued the word of God. Jesus is a human being as far as the flesh goes but not one by the spirit within. You think that John is saying that Jesus must be viewed as fully human but that is not necessary for him to say, that Jesus came as a human being. I have never spoken of a separate god or a co-creator. I have stated that it is God Himself who came in Jesus. I have news for you no person ever inhabited a body without having the spirit breathed into it. I have told you before (do you bother to listen or just get lost in your own fetid reasoning) that Jesus is descended from Adam through Mary (not that it was necessary for God to do that but it was necessary for prophecy to be fulfilled).

I have told you before that I believe the verse is not talking about giving divine glory. I don't know where you get this stuff from. Jesus as God is not an heir. He is already God and is not going to abdicate. As before it is necessary for God to have a human body to be High Priest because that is one of the attributes of the High Priest. Jesus did not need to suffer to become High Priest but became one when He was begotten of the Father as the verse states.

There is no such thing. The body of Jesus was corporeal as the resurrection testament clearly indicates. In the book of Revelation Jesus is pictured as having a corporeal body glorified in light but Paul's account only mentions light so it remains that He did not see the body of Jesus.

There is no description of this spiritual body as light and the scripture indicates that the body of Jesus was corporeal. All Paul is trying to do is state that the new body is an enhanced body. Saying that a body is a spiritual body is an oxymoron.

 

[look3467]

To love me is to love my dog. As I have said before, I am becoming bored with this debate, Jesus did not give his name to our Father "Who I Am," but our Lord God and saviour, "Who I Am" gave his name to the man Jesus, who he chose from among the Israelites and sent him in his Name "Who I Am," to speak in his Name. Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord God our saviour.

" To love me is to love my dog" I agree with you 100%!

I happen to know who the "I am" is because the His dog has revealed Him to me.

Therefore, I know the "I am": as the dog, and because there is no other name under heaven by which the "I am" was revealed to me, the dog is as God.

I am becoming bored with this debate

I can understand your pain.........but if you would only work on the love part of dealing with differing views, you can retain yours and still convey the love of the Father as your view declares.

My view is similar to yours in many ways in that we both acknowledge God the Father as supreme, yet for the sake of humanity, knowing the Father can only be known by the one who best reveals His character to a T, and that is Jesus.

So Jesus is as God reconciling the world back to the Father by His own sacrifice, taking our place at the judgment.

As God ref: Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.

"As God" meaning with full authority of God to effect the salvation of mankind, where no man, save God Himself as a man, could accomplish that feat!

You recall Peter trying to walk on the water?

JER 5:22 Fear ye not me? saith the Lord: will ye not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?

The People Or Water Are Troubled The Day Of The Cross. As The Storm When Jesus Walked On The Water. Peter Also Tried To Go To Jesus Then, And, Again Is Afraid.


"yet can they not pass over it?" Yes, we, like as Peter can try, but unless God did it Himself as a man, none of our trying, without God, could prevail for fear.

I can understand your views and I respect them, for what really matters is that we both understand the love of God.

Blessings, AJ

 

[look3467]

A person who loves God should wish to be in harmony with God's viewpoint.>>>Muffled

Ah, but there lies the problem with all of us........and that is what each of us believe what God's view point is?

Had we all a clear understanding of what that is, we should all be in harmony.

But as it is, the natural I mean, was a designed default built in to us that we should differ, that in the differing,....... love should be born.

You see, love can not be born in a perfect state, only in an imperfect state, for there in only can the test be administered to draw that love out.

Blessings, AJ

 

[URAVIP2ME]

quote=URAVIP2ME; What is God's name? The Tetragrammaton [YHWH] only applies to God not Jesus.
The name YHWH, is translated as "I Am Who I Am," and this is the name that our Lord God and saviour gave to Jesus of Nazareth, who he chose as his heir and successor.
quote=URAVIP2ME; Jesus also prayed that his Father's name should be hallowed, sacred, sanctified.
As do we all when we pray, "Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be thy name. (Who I Am) the name in which he sent his servant Jesus, who spoke in the name of our Lord God and saviour, the only name with the power to save. Blessed is He who came in the name of the Lord.

'I am' is not the Tetragrammaton. Capitalizing [not in the Hebrew] the letter 'A' in 'am' does not make it a personal proper name.

YHWH means He causes to become.

At Psalm 110 v1 there are two [2] LORD/Lord's mentioned.
God in the KJV is printed in all capitals as LORD.
Jesus as Lord is not in all capitals.

 

[S-word]

[/color]
Gnosticism. It claimed that God was too exalted to take on a human form so the form must have been divine and not human.

S-words Response; Yea I know, Clement the Bishop of Alexandria was into Gnosticism, it was he, who in the 2nd century wrote, “It would be ridiculous to imagine that the body of the redeemer, in order to exist, had the usual needs of man (That is, WE Human Beings) He only took food and ate it in order that we should not teach about him in a Docetic fashion.” In other words what he is saying is that Jesus was not tempted in every way like we mere human, ie, like the human being Moses, who went for forty days without food, Satan must have been an idiot to try to tempt “Clement’s Jesus,” who did not have the normal needs of we human beings, such as eating, drinking, and excretion, into turning stones to bread in order to satisfy a hunger that “Clement’s non-human Jesus” did not have.

It was in the seventh century that Clement, who had been declared to be a saint, was dropped from the calendar by Pope Clement VIII. Pope Benedict XIV in 1748 reinforced that decision on the grounds that some of his doctrines were, if not erroneous at least highly suspect.

Quote=Muffled; The body of Jesus was corporeal as the resurrection testament clearly indicates.

That was before Jesus who is our hope, had returned to the Father to occupy his throne, while the spiritual body of our Lord God and saviour was torn asunder and on the day of Pentecost, was poured out as fire upon all those who had believed his words as spoken through his obedient servant Jesus, who spoke not word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded by our Lord God and saviour.

Quote=Muffled; In the book of Revelation Jesus is pictured as having a corporeal body glorified in light but Paul's account only mentions light so it remains that He did not see the body of Jesus.


When Saul was blinded by the appearance of a body of brilliant light, he cried out to the one who was speaking from that body of Light, “Who are you Lord” and the person who appeared within that body of brilliant and blinding light answered, “I Am Jesus of Nazareth” see Acts 22: 8.

Quote=Muffled; There is no description of this spiritual body as light and the scripture indicates that the body of Jesus was corporeal. All Paul is trying to do is state that the new body is an enhanced body. Saying that a body is a spiritual body is an oxymoron.


Yea, so say the ignorant. But irrelevant as to what you might imagine in that confused mind of yours, when Jesus of Nazareth appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus, neither he, Saul, nor those who were travelling with him saw any corporeal body, but only a body of brilliant light from which Jesus of Nazareth spoke to Saul.

Quote=Muffled; I have told you before that I believe the verse is not talking about giving divine glory. I don't know where you get this stuff from.


You have told me many times what you believe, it’s just a pity that your beliefs do not tally with the Holy Scriptures. As to your denial of Acts 3:13; where it is said that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our ancestors has given glory, or divine glory to his servant Jesus, depending on which translation that you are reading from, but irrelevant as to whether it should be divine glory or just glory, you should accept that that it is said in acts 3: 13; that Jesus was given Glory by our Father God, but no, you deny God’s word.

So how about 1st Peter 1: 21; “Through him (Jesus) you now believe in God, who raised him (Jesus) from death and gave him (Jesus) glory; etc” Now try to twist and distort that verse to fit in with your false belief.

Quote=Muffled; Jesus as God is not an heir.


See Deuternomy 18: 18; Jesus was not God, he was the man that God chose to send in his name, to speak and do only that which he was commanded by our Lord God and Saviour. “Blessed is he who comes in the NAME of the Lord.” But Jesus as a man, is the heir and successor to Melchizedek, who, clothed and girded with fire, serves God before the body of Adam/mankind, into all eternity.

Quote=Muffled; He is already God and is not going to abdicate.


Wrong again matey, Acts 2: 32; God has raised this very Jesus from death---He has been raised (from death) to sit at the right side of God (in his throne.) if that’s not being given divine glory, then I don’t know what is.

Quote=Muffled; As before it is necessary for God to have a human body to be High Priest because that is one of the attributes of the High Priest.


Rubbish Hebrew 8: 1; The whole point of what we are saying is that we have such a High priest, who sits at the right of the throne of the Divine majesty in heaven. A physical human body in heaven? No human being can stand or sit beside the unapproachable light of God’s presence and hope to survive.

Quote=Muffled; He is already God and is not going to abdicate.


Revelation 3: 21; “To those (Human Beings) who win the victory I will give the right to sit beside me on my throne (Which is the throne of our heavenly Father) Just as I (Who was once a human Being) have been victorious and now sit by my/our Father on HIS throne. So according to your belief, we Human Beings who are victorious and are given the right to sit by our brother Jesus, who sits beside our Heavenly Father in the heavenly throne of God, are GODS.

Quote=Muffled; Jesus did not need to suffer to become High Priest but became one when He was begotten of the Father as the verse states.


it was after Jesus had been made perfect through suffering that God declared him to be High Priest in the line of succession to Melchizedek. see Hebrew 5: 7-10; But Jesus did not take upon himself the honour of High priest, instead, (After he had been made perfect through his suffering) God declared him to be High Priest in the line of succesion to Melchizedek, with these words, “You are my Son, Today I have become your Father.” Hebrew 5-6;
I’ll get back to you later and answer the rest of your ridiculous statements, there’s other posts that require answers also don’t chyou know?

 

[S-word]

'I am' is not the Tetragrammaton. Capitalizing [not in the Hebrew] the letter 'A' in 'am' does not make it a personal proper name.

YHWH means He causes to become.

At Psalm 110 v1 there are two [2] LORD/Lord's mentioned.
God in the KJV is printed in all capitals as LORD.
Jesus as Lord is not in all capitals.

I could simply refer you to the same source that reveals to me that YHWH or Yahweh, which is the English rendering of YHWH is the personal name of God, but why put you through the ordeal of having to sift through all that material, when I can just explain it to you.

It is held by the majority of scholars that the only “name of God” in the Tanakh is Yahweh or YHWH, whereas words such as Elohim (God), El (Mighty one), El Shaddai (Almighty God), Adonai (Master), El Elyon (Most high God), Avinu (Our Father), etc. Are not names but titles, highlighting different aspects of YHWH, and the various roles which He has.

A man may be called ‘Dad’, ‘Husband’, ‘Boss’, ‘Sir’, ‘Son’, etc, but his personal name is the only one that can be correctly identified as his name. In the Tanakh, YHWH, or Yahweh, is the personal name of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, whereas the other words are titles which are ascribed to Him, and the English meaning of the Name YHWH, is generally accepted by the greater majority of scholars as, “I am Who I Am.”

The different scribes who were under the controll of our indwelling Father, when recording the books of the Old Testament, would replace the Holy name of God with other titles in order that the Holy name would not be pronounced and in many cases the Hebrew word substituted to replace the Holy name, "Yehew" was "Adonay=Lord,"

 

[S-word]

Quote Muffled; I have news for you no person ever inhabited a body without having the spirit breathed into it.

S-words Response; And from where did you receive this great insight?

 

[Shine_0f_sun]

Trinity is totally a false theory in christianity..

Indeed they do blaspheme who say God is Jesus!

Jesus Christ never claimed himself as God..

Jesus never said worship me!

"The worship me in vain, their teaching are but Rules taught by men "[from Niv matthew 15:9]

"But in Vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of Men"[from Kjv Matthew 15:9]

Indeed, Jesus prophesied that People will worship him uselessly and will believe in doctrines made not by God but by men; All doctrines of modern christianity are made by men: the trinity,
Divine worship to Jesus,
original sin etc theory!

Jesus clearly said worship to Father Alone

"yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father is spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks"[john, 4:23]

say not God is 3 in 1 but say God is Alone!

"Why do you call me good?No one is good-except GOD ALONE"[Mark 10:18 from Niv]

jesus never equated himself with God that is why he said?

"MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I" - [john 14:28]

In Bible Father mentioned as God..

"Go instead to my brothers and tell them"i am not returning MY Father and YOUR Father, to MY God and YOUR God"[john "20:17]

Jesus Father also our all Father and Jesus God also our all God

What miraculous jesus performed by himself?

"..I CAST OUT DEVILS BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD..." [Mathew 12:28]

"..I WITH THE FINGER OF GOD CAST OUT DEVILS..." [The Bible, Luke 11:20]

even Jesus said he can do nothing!

"..I CAN OF MINE OWN SELF DO NOTHING: AS0 I HEAR, I JUDGE: AND MY JUDGEMENT IS JUST; BECAUSE I SEEK NOT MY OWN WILL, BUT THE WILL OF THE FATHER WHICH HATH SENT ME "[john 5:30]

see >>"I can of mine own self do nothing"[John 5:30] also read john 5:19

Jesus knowledge was little..Meaning he was not God

"No one knows about that days or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the son but only the Father[matthew 24:36]

this is very clear that Father and Jesus never one person. Cause if They were one person then Jesus could know the day of judgement. So he was not God

"The next day as they were leaving Brethany, Jesus was hungry. Seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to find out if it had any fruit. When he reached it, he found nothing but leaves, because it was not the season for figs"[Mark 11:12-13]

it is clear from those verses that the knowledge of Jesus was limited on two counts. First, he did not know that the tree had no fruit until he came to it. Second, He did not know that it was not the right season to expect figs on trees.

Can He become God later?

Who EVEN DONT KNOW THE RIGHT SEASON OF FRUITS, HOW HE CAN KNOW ME?!!

No!!

Because there is only one God, and He is God from everlasting to everlasting(see psalm 90:2]

Jesus never was God, and Never will be. In the Bible, God declares:

"Before me no God was formed, nor will there be one after me"[Isaiah 43:10]

as Bible says Jesus heard everything from God! Meaning Jesus was a messenger of God!

"Now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard FROM GOD"[John, 8:40]

"My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me"[matthew 27:46]

How a God can have another God?!
Lets see few point:

If God sacrificed his only son Jesus, How can God be Jesus, hid son himself?

What is the significance of God sacrificing his only son, if the son himself is God, then nobody was sacrificed!!

The trinity doctrine never can make sense.

Trinity is no more than a rubbish and brainwashed theory!!

When jews asked Jesus about the 1st commandment of God then Jesus said same what moses said in duet 6:4 and Jesus never add any new theory

"HEAR, O ISRAEL; THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD" [Mark 12:29]

Bible clearly says God can not tempt by satan!

"...For God cannot be tempted by Satan, nor does he tempt anyone"[James 1:13]

we come to know in gospel that Jesus was tempted by satan, so Jesus was not God!


in acts 3:13 Peter clearly said Jesus was "Servant of God"

In acts 2:22 peter clearly said Jesus was a man and God sent him

"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus the Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know"[acts 2:22]

we know in Bible that God is not a man but Jesus was a man so Jesus never was a God!!

"God is not a man..."[Numbers 23:19]

"...For i am God, and not a man-..."[Hosea 11:9]

No man can see God!

"no man has ever seen God but God is One and Only, who is at the father's side, has made him known"[john, 1:18 from Niv]

"No one has ever seen God..."[1 john 4:12]

"you can not see my face, for no one may see me and live"[exodus 33:20]

"And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice or seen his shape"[john 5:37]

You can not see the shape of Father aka God!

Jesus was a messenger of God cause he heard everything from God!

"As it is, U are determined to kill me, A Man who has told u the truth that HEARD FROM GOD..."[John 8:40]

all proof that Jesus never claimed himself as God!

 

[look3467]

Why then do things happen when evoking Jesus' name?

Blessings, AJ

 

[DeitySlayer]

Using the Bible to prove Jesus was God is like using Harry Potter to prove Dumbledore is real.

 

[look3467]

Only from personal experience calling on Jesus have things happened to me.
Jesus is my direct connection to the Father, otherwise, I would have no one as a non Jew.
If then Jesus is my direct connection to heaven, it only makes sense that Jesus is the go to dieity.

Now, all of you opposing Jesus as deity are free to do so without any retribution, since the Father in Jesus has given His righteousness as a gift to us, otherwise, yours and I's righteousness would only grant us favor while on this earth, but not eternal life.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Wayne121]

Trinity is totally a false theory in christianity..

Indeed they do blaspheme who say God is Jesus!

Jesus Christ never claimed himself as God..

Did Jesus Claim to be God?

Among the religious leaders who have attained a large following throughout history, Jesus Christ is unique in the fact that He alone claimed to be God in human flesh. A common misconception is that some or many of the leaders of the world's religions made similar claims, but this is simply not the case.​

Buddha did not claim to be God; Moses never said that he was Yahweh; Mohammed did not identify himself to be Ahura Mazda. Yet Jesus, the carpenter from Nazareth, said that he who has seen him (Jesus) has seen the Father (John 14:9).
The claims of Christ are many and varied. He said that He existed before Abraham (John 8:58), and that He was equal with the Father (John 14:9).

The New Testament equated Jesus as the creator of the universe (John 1:3), and that He is the one who holds everything together (Colossians 1:17). The apostle Paul says that God was manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16, KJV), and John the evangelist says that "the Word was God" (John 1:1).

The united testimony of Jesus and the writers of the New Testament is that He was more than mere man; He was God.
Not only did His friends notice that He claimed to be God, but so did His enemies as well. There may be some doubt today among the skeptics who refuse to examine the evidence, but there was no doubt on the part of the Jewish authorities.
When Jesus asked them why they wanted to stone Him, they replied, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God" (John 10:33, NASB).

This fact separates Jesus from the other religious figures. In the major religions of the world, the teachings -- not the teacher -- are all-important.

Confucianism is a set of teachings; Confucius is not important. Islam is the revelation of Allah, with Mohammed being the prophet, and Buddhism emphasizes the principles of the Buddha and not Buddha himself. This is especially true of Hinduism, where there is no historic founder.

However, at the center of Christianity is the person of Jesus Christ. Jesus did not just claim to be teaching mankind the truth; He claimed that He was the truth (John 14:6).

What Jesus taught is not the important aspect of Christianity, but what is important is who Jesus was. Was He the Son of God? Is He the only way a person can reach God? This was the claim He made for Himself.

Suppose this very night the President of the United States appeared on all the major networks and proclaimed that "I am God Almighty. I have the power to forgive sin. I have the authority to raise my life back from the dead."

He would be quickly and quietly shut off the air, led away, and replaced by the Vice-President. Anybody who would dare make such claims would have to be either out of his mind or a liar, unless he was God.

This is exactly the case with Jesus. He clearly claimed all these things and more. If He is God, as He claimed, we must believe in Him, and if He is not, then we should have nothing to do with Him. Jesus is either Lord of all or not Lord at all.
Yes, Jesus claimed to be God. Why should anyone believe it? After all, merely claiming to be something does not make it true. Where's the evidence that Jesus is God?

The Bible gives various reasons, including miracles and fulfilled prophecy, that are intended to convince us that Jesus is the one whom He said He was (John 20:30, 31). The main reason, or the sign which Jesus Himself said would demonstrate that He was the Son of God, was His resurrection from the dead.

When asked for a sign from the religious leaders, Jesus replied, "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" (Matthew 12:40, RSV).
In another place He said, when asked for a sign, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up . . . but he spake of the temple of his body" (John 2:19, 21, KJV). The ability to raise His life back from the dead was the sign that separates Him not only from all other religious leaders, but also from anyone else who has ever lived.

Anyone wishing to refute the case for Christianity must explain away the story of the resurrection. Therefore, according to the Bible, Jesus proves to be the Son of God by coming back from the dead (Romans 1:4). The evidence is overwhelming that Jesus did rise from the grave, and it is this fact that proves Jesus to be God.

This is an excerpt from the book, "Answers to Tough Questions," by Josh McDowell and Don Stewart.

Is Jesus God? The Bible clearly says so:

From Philippians chapter 2:

5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very natureGod,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very natureof a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!

Sorry about the large caps. I'll try to figure the size out.

 

[Shine_0f_sun]

Among the religious leaders who have attained a large following throughout history, Jesus Christ is unique in the fact that He alone claimed to be God in human flesh.

Jesus Christ NEVER claimed himself as God! Give me only one verse from Gospel where Jesus said "I am God or u all worship me" If you are able to give me only one verse then today i shall convert to christianity!! Challenging you!!

Buddha did not claim to be God; Moses never said that he was Yahweh; Mohammed did not identify himself to be Ahura Mazda.

I also know about them. There NO one claimed himself as God! You are right...

Yet Jesus, the carpenter from Nazareth, said that he who has seen him (Jesus) has seen the Father (John 14:9).

John 14:9 mean Jesus is God? What was this context?Its so easy to tell a verse without context.Come in john 14:1-9 verse!

"Do not let ur hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me"[John 14:1]

here Jesus said u must trust in God and Also in me. Why Jesus not said only trust in me? Why he mentioned there God name?

Meaning Trust in God and his messenger Jesus

Moses said trust in God and also me, Daniel said, Solomon said, David said, John said, isaiah said, Jesus said and Muhammad also said. Every Prophets said trust in God and also me!

"In my Fathers hourse are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told u. I am going there to prepare a place for u"[john 14:2]

Here Jesus said in "My Father" hourse are many rooms. He mentioned there about heaven

Jesus not said "My House" and why he said "My Father House"? new testament father mentioned as God.

"And if I go and prepare a place for u, I will come back and take u to be with me that u also may be where I am"[John 14:3]

"U know the way to the where I am going"[john 14:4]

Here jesus said he going to heaven for prepare a house for his followers and Jesus thought his disciples already know the way.

"Thomas said to him, "Lord, we dont know where u are going, so how can we know the way"[John 14:6]

Thomas didnt understand about it so, he asked Jesus about the way to see heaven

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me"[John 14:6]

Here Jesus said, he is he truth way to see heaven

and no man can come to God without teaching of Jesus

here I Am 100% Agree with John 14:6 and Jesus!!

We muslims also believe that Jesus was the and only truth way

When moses has come that times Moses was only way and truth and that times no man could came to heaven without the torah and the teaching of Moses

when Jesus has come that times he also was the only way.

That times Without teaching of Jesus no man could come God. All was only for the children of Israel. As proof in bible:

he answered "i was sent only to the lost sheep of israel" [matthew 15:24]

now see next verse..

"If u really knew me, u would know my Father as well. From now on, u do know him and have seen him"[John 14:7]

Here Jesus said if u know me then you also know about my Father. Jesus said it CAUSE father send his words to Jesus. Which meaning Jesus is messenger of God

"As it is, U are determined to kill me, A Man who has told u the truth that HEARD FROM GOD..."[John 8:40]

Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us"[John 14:8]

Here Philip said Lord show us Father, meaning He want to see Father shape.

"Jesus answered: "Dont u know me, Philip, even after I have been among u such a long time?.."[John 16:9]

Here Jesus answered "dont u know me" which meaning u do not trust me? "even after I have been among u such a long time?" Its mean from a long times Jesus was with them and Jesus already said them about the Father but still why they asking Jesus about Father.

Cause no man can see Father (John 1:18) and Father have no Shape/image[john 5:37]

"no man has ever seen God but God is One and Only, who is at the father's side, has made him known"[john, 1:18]

"And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice or seen his shape"[john 5:37]

See this is John 14 chapter but Jesus already cleared them About Father in John 5:37 chapter. And there he clearly defined them about Father "You have never heard his voice or seen his shape"

My Question Jesus really said lie in John 5:37 chapter??


No Jesus never said lie! Actually you christians understand wrong!

"..Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How u can say, "Show us the Father'?"[John 16:9]

"anyone who has seen me has seen the Father": this mean if anyone who following Jesus commandments and Jesus teaching, he actually following he commandments of God cause God sent his commandments to Jesus and Jesus sent it to his disciples.

Why we call Moses 10 commandments? It given by moses but came from where? God!

My Question then why Jesus said them by >"How u can say, "Show us the Father'?<

to Prove what? only logical answer: reason is you can not see the Father shape at anyone and thats why Jesus said it.

There context is very verse john 14:2 number verse clearly said "My Father hourse" >not "my house"

 

[Walkntune]

Jesus Christ NEVER claimed himself as God! Give me only one verse from Gospel where Jesus said "I am God or u all worship me" If you are able to give me only one verse then today i shall convert to christianity!! Challenging you!!



I also know about them. There NO one claimed himself as God! You are right...



John 14:9 mean Jesus is God? What was this context?Its so easy to tell a verse without context.Come in john 14:1-9 verse!

"Do not let ur hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me"[John 14:1]

here Jesus said u must trust in God and Also in me. Why Jesus not said only trust in me? Why he mentioned there God name?

Meaning Trust in God and his messenger Jesus

Moses said trust in God and also me, Daniel said, Solomon said, David said, John said, isaiah said, Jesus said and Muhammad also said. Every Prophets said trust in God and also me!

"In my Fathers hourse are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told u. I am going there to prepare a place for u"[john 14:2]

Here Jesus said in "My Father" hourse are many rooms. He mentioned there about heaven

Jesus not said "My House" and why he said "My Father House"? new testament father mentioned as God.

"And if I go and prepare a place for u, I will come back and take u to be with me that u also may be where I am"[John 14:3]

"U know the way to the where I am going"[john 14:4]

Here jesus said he going to heaven for prepare a house for his followers and Jesus thought his disciples already know the way.

"Thomas said to him, "Lord, we dont know where u are going, so how can we know the way"[John 14:6]

Thomas didnt understand about it so, he asked Jesus about the way to see heaven

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me"[John 14:6]

Here Jesus said, he is he truth way to see heaven

and no man can come to God without teaching of Jesus

here I Am 100% Agree with John 14:6 and Jesus!!

We muslims also believe that Jesus was the and only truth way

When moses has come that times Moses was only way and truth and that times no man could came to heaven without the torah and the teaching of Moses

when Jesus has come that times he also was the only way.

That times Without teaching of Jesus no man could come God. All was only for the children of Israel. As proof in bible:

he answered "i was sent only to the lost sheep of israel" [matthew 15:24]

now see next verse..

"If u really knew me, u would know my Father as well. From now on, u do know him and have seen him"[John 14:7]

Here Jesus said if u know me then you also know about my Father. Jesus said it CAUSE father send his words to Jesus. Which meaning Jesus is messenger of God

"As it is, U are determined to kill me, A Man who has told u the truth that HEARD FROM GOD..."[John 8:40]

Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us"[John 14:8]

Here Philip said Lord show us Father, meaning He want to see Father shape.

"Jesus answered: "Dont u know me, Philip, even after I have been among u such a long time?.."[John 16:9]

Here Jesus answered "dont u know me" which meaning u do not trust me? "even after I have been among u such a long time?" Its mean from a long times Jesus was with them and Jesus already said them about the Father but still why they asking Jesus about Father.

Cause no man can see Father (John 1:18) and Father have no Shape/image[john 5:37]

"no man has ever seen God but God is One and Only, who is at the father's side, has made him known"[john, 1:18]

"And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice or seen his shape"[john 5:37]

See this is John 14 chapter but Jesus already cleared them About Father in John 5:37 chapter. And there he clearly defined them about Father "You have never heard his voice or seen his shape"

My Question Jesus really said lie in John 5:37 chapter??


No Jesus never said lie! Actually you christians understand wrong!

"..Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How u can say, "Show us the Father'?"[John 16:9]

"anyone who has seen me has seen the Father": this mean if anyone who following Jesus commandments and Jesus teaching, he actually following he commandments of God cause God sent his commandments to Jesus and Jesus sent it to his disciples.

Why we call Moses 10 commandments? It given by moses but came from where? God!

My Question then why Jesus said them by >"How u can say, "Show us the Father'?<

to Prove what? only logical answer: reason is you can not see the Father shape at anyone and thats why Jesus said it.

There context is very verse john 14:2 number verse clearly said "My Father hourse" >not "my house"

Jesus was God in flesh which was obedient to God in spirit just as you keep your flesh in obedience to your being or spirit.Both your flesh and your spirit are you but you keep one under subjection of the other. How so?So Jesus as God in flesh refered to God in spirit as father as He was obedient and and under subjection to Him.
We are a trinity as flesh,mind, and a soul and also created in the image of God.

 

[Shine_0f_sun]

Continue: Now see next verse

"Dont you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father in me? The words I say to you are not Just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work"[John 14:10]

Here jesus said I in the Father and the Father in me which meaning Father loves always with in Jesus and jesus obey and loves always with in Father. Even Jesus said his disciples also in him(john 17:21-23)

"That all of them may be one, Father, Just as u are in me and I am in you. May THEY ALSO IN US..."[John 17:21]

"The words I say to you are not Just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work"

this mean what Jesus teaching those all is truth and the commandment of
God

This All context is very clear that John 14:6 or john 14:9 never mean Jesus is God!!

The New Testament equated Jesus as the creator of the universe (John 1:3), and that He is the one who holds everything together (Colossians 1:17). The apostle Paul says that God was manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16, KJV), and John the evangelist says that "the Word was God" (John 1:1)

Jesus NEVER WAS the creator of the universe and never will be. Jesus was was a "servant of God " acts 3:13

First point: John 1:1 never came from Jesus himself!

Second point: john 1:1 is a mistranslation of english bible!

According to Kings james version..

"In the beginning was the Word,& the Word was with God & the Word was God"[John 1:1]

Now i wanna give you correct translation according to Greek Bible..

"En arche en ho lagos, kai ho logos en pros TON THEON, kai THEOS en ho lagos"

The two mentioned "God"s are not the same "God"

The 1st "God" is Greek "ton theon" and the 2nd God is "theos"

That mean, the two "God" cannot be swapped, they are not equal

In other words The first God is another person than the second God

"Ton theon" means "The GOD" while "theos" means "a god" or "devine"

the correct translation is in NWT bible. You may check NWT bible john 1:1

"in beginning the Word was, & the Word was with GOD, & the Word was a god"

"God" mean almighty Real God and "god" mean divine messenger(prophet)

And in the old testament, the Lord said unto Moses:

"See, i have made thee 'a god' to pharoah"[Exodus 7:1]

Why do you use a small 'g' for 'GOD' when referring to Moses?

In greek theos means "god" not "God"


In local greek bible Exodus 7:1 also is "theos" but they translated in english as "god"

My Question why this dirty game? Why you falsely try to prove that Jesus is God?

"I have said, ye are gods(Elohim) and all of you are the children of the most high"[pslam 82:6]

Its actually "Gods" which in hebrew bible Elohim. But they translated there gods!

note: The trinitarian liars who translated the Bible into English play dirty tricks about capitalizing and lowering the "g" in "God" to prove their trinity lie, while they fully know that it is THE SAME WORD USED FOR ALL!

My Response about paul verse:

And Colossians 1:17, 1 Timothy 3:16 is written by paul. Even paul never met with jesus, nor he was a apostle of Jesus. Even Paul never was sure that he had spirit of God!

"...I THINK that I too have the spirit of God"[1 corinthians, 7:40]

See guys paul said "Think" which meaning even he was not sure. So how we can believe him?!

So please do not give me any false verse of paul!

"You shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye many keep the commandments of Y-H-V-H(LORD) your God which I command you"[Duet. 4:2]

My question Paul all verse is commands of God??

So according to duet 4:2 paul all verse is no more than a rubbish!!!

 

[S-word]

Did Jesus Claim to be God?

Wayne, my dear friend, I see that you are like most so-called christians who are the product of the universal church that was established in 325 AD, by the non-christian King Constantine which church was founded on the deceptive teachings of the enemies of Christ who refused to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being. Like them I&#8217;m afraid that you have the bull by the udder.

quote=Wayne121; The claims of Christ are many and varied. He said that He existed before Abraham (John 8:58), and that He was equal with the Father (John 14:9).


Moses asked God for his name in order that he might be able to tell the Israelites in Egypt, who had sent him. And God said; Exodus 3: 14; "I Am Who I Am." You must tell them: 'The one who is called "I AM" has sent me to you.' Tell the Israelites that I, the Lord, the God of their ancestors, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, have sent you to them.

Acts 3: 13; "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of your ancestors, has given divine glory to his servant Jesus.

Deuteronomy 18: 18; The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, says to Moses; "I will send them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will tell him what to say, and he will tell the people everything I command. He will speak in my name etc.

Peter confirms that Jesus was that man. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, Just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "Blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord." Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had prophesied that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name. Jesus claims that he spoke not one word on his own authority, but only that which he was commanded to say by our Lord God and saviour, who revealed his divine nature and eternal power though his obedient servant Jesus, who he used a his physical image on earth

John 14: 10; &#8220;The words I have spoken to you,&#8221; Jesus said to his disciples, &#8220;do not come from me, but from the/our Father who remains in me and who does his own work.&#8221;
John14: 24; &#8220;And the words that you have heard are not mine, but come from the/our Father,(Who I Am) who sent me.&#8221;

&#8220;Before Abraham was, I Am,&#8221; were not the words of Jesus but were the words of our indwelling Father, who revealed himself to us through his faithful and obedient servant, our Brother Jesus.

As to the false concept that Jesus is the &#8220;Logos,&#8221; this is but one of the multitude of erroneous teachings of the universal church that was established in 325 AD by the non-christian King Constantine, which church was founded on the deceptive teachings of the enemies of Christ who refuse to acknowledge that Jesus came as a human being.

The &#8220;Logos&#8221; is the divine animating principle that pervades the entire universal body and all therein, that animating force which activates all within the evolving singularity is the life force of God and was in the beginning of this three dimensional universe, and was the force that spatially separated the infinitely dense, infinitely hot, infinitesimally small singularity which has evolved to become the universal singularity, which is all that is and that includes you, I, and the man Jesus.

It was through the Logos that is God, that all things in existence was made, it was by the Logos that all things that have been made were made, and without the Logos was not anything made that was made, or ever will be made, and it is for the Logos that all things exist. For the Logos is the life-force of singularity that is God in which all things evolve in the eternal process of the evolution of God, who Is ONE/Singularity.

The Logos has become &#8220;Who I Am,&#8221; by the gathering to itself, of all the information that is gathered through the senses of all the life-forms that it has become. &#8220;Who I Am,&#8221; who is the Logos that was in the beginning, is connected to the singularity of origin by an eternal and unbroken genetic thread of life. &#8220;Who I Am,&#8221; has never died and can never die. &#8220;I&#8221; am the mind/spirit that is developing within this living body, where, in the innermost sanctuary of this tabernacle, dwells my indwelling ancestral Father, "Who I Am," who is the compilation of all the spirits of all my genetic ancestors from all time, Human and pre-human. If &#8220;I,&#8221; who am being formed from all the information and experiences that are taken in through the senses of this body, without which senses, &#8220;I&#8221; the mind/spirit could not have ever developed, remain true to, and an obedient servant to, and an extension of &#8220;Who I Am,&#8221; then &#8220;I&#8221; too will continue to live long after this body in which &#8220;I&#8221; have and continue to develop, has returned to the universal elements from which it was formed.

Revelation 3: 21; &#8220;To those (Human Beings) who win the victory I will give the right to sit beside me on my throne, (Which is in fact our Fathers throne) Just as I (who was once a human being) have been victorious and now sit by my/our Father on his throne.&#8221; Our Father who Art in heaven hallowed be thy name.

If you will be true to &#8220;Who You Are&#8221; and win the victory, you too may win the right to sit in the throne of Godhead, which is the Most high in the singularity that is God, the next species that comes from mankind in the eternal process of evolution, and is "The Son of Man," which is the spirit that is currently developing in the sinful body of mankind, and will be revealed as the bodies of glorious and blinding light, that will dwell on earth and rule with justice not only the earthly beings, but even those in heaven.

There is a physical body, so there must be a spiritual body, but it is the physical body that comes first says Paul in 1st Corinthians 15; and as Jesus who was the first fruits to be harvested from the body of mankind, appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus in the new body of blinding light, from which body of Light the voice cried out, &#8220;I am Jesus of Nazareth&#8221; see Act 22: 8; so too, we who win the victory, who have borne the image of the first Adam, shall we bear the image of the second Adam, the man Jesus who was given divine glory by our Lord God and saviour, whose glorious immortal body is torn asunder and poured out as fire on all those who believe, and who is now, incontestably divine.