Did Jesus say he was God???

[Muffled]

The most common explanation is that the fig tree symbolized the House of Judah (which had put an Herodian foreigner as its king), and Jesus was cursing Judah for doing so. And of course he was cursing the Pharisees for their accommodation of foreign rulers and Hedllenic apostasy.

I believe this is a bit of a stretch. I wouldn't categorically rule it out but there aren't any clues in the text to support it.

Thereis the parable of the fig tree in Luke 13:6-9 which appears to relate to repentance. I suppose cursing the fig tree could be an object lesson related to the parable. As such it would be a very graphic warning for those who were unrepentant.

 

[Muffled]

Hi, I am new here and I am a non-trin. I dont go into doctrine debate because Jesus says we know them by their fruit, not by what we believe or what we say.

No, Jesus did not say "I am God", not even once.

I dont argue about the things Jesus did not say.

My faith in Jesus is very simple.

blessings.

Actions are based on beliefs. If one doesn't believe that Jesus is God in the flesh then one has no assurance that God loves him and as a result stays away from God becasue God is a terror when He is angry.

 

[Shermana]

Actions are based on beliefs. If one doesn't believe that Jesus is God in the flesh then one has no assurance that God loves him and as a result stays away from God becasue God is a terror when He is angry.

Interesting, God only loves people who believe Jesus was Him.

Can't say I remember anything remotely close (that's in actual context at least) in the text that says that.

Is something a voice told you or something?

 

[F0uad]

I believe that is illogical. Why would one doubt what is said simply because it isn't what it was conceived to be?

Your claim was that its doubtful to belief in the verse that is revealed in Matthew and Luke if that is the case aren't other things also doubtful and if not why not? Is it only doubtful because it makes Jesus(pbuh) look like a human?

Muslims have many misconceptions about the Qu'ran. Does that mean everything in the Qu'ran should be doubted?

No but were did you find Muslims here claiming that there are verses in the Quran that are doubtful? Having misconceptions or different interpretations doesn't mean that the verse is doubtful.

 

[F0uad]

Actions are based on beliefs. If one doesn't believe that Jesus is God in the flesh then one has no assurance that God loves him and as a result stays away from God becasue God is a terror when He is angry.

Thats strange if i am correctly nobody believed in Jesus(pbuh) being god prior to him why wasn't god angry at those people, let me rephrase that why wasn't Jesus(pbuh) mad at them?

Doesn't the Bible gives us specific verses were it says that God is no man, God is nothing like what is on the earth, seas and heavens?
Let me ask you what assurance do you have that God will not be angry at you by claiming that he became flesh except from the word of John and Paul?

 

[zengi]

peace be to you all.

I want to know why you think that God and Jesus are equal to each other.

because Jesus said in the Bible and I qoute from John 11;42 'And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I SAID IT, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

so he is confirming that he is sent ok.

now in John 13;16 'Verily, Verily, I say unto you, The SERVANT is not greater than his lord; neither he that is SENT greater than he that SENT him.

 

[F0uad]

peace be to you all.

I want to know why you think that God and Jesus are equal to each other.

because Jesus said in the Bible and I qoute from John 11;42 'And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I SAID IT, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

so he is confirming that he is sent ok.

now in John 13;16 'Verily, Verily, I say unto you, The SERVANT is not greater than his lord; neither he that is SENT greater than he that SENT him.

Hoi welkom op de forums.

 

[zengi]

Hoi welkom op de forums.

hey Fouad dankje wel broeder

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Spoken as a true prophet of God....

I am telling you the truth: those who believe in me will do what I do - yes, they will do even greater things, because I am going to the Father. - John 14:12

 

[Meshak]

peace be to you all.

I want to know why you think that God and Jesus are equal to each other.

because Jesus said in the Bible and I qoute from John 11;42 'And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I SAID IT, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

so he is confirming that he is sent ok.

now in John 13;16 'Verily, Verily, I say unto you, The SERVANT is not greater than his lord; neither he that is SENT greater than he that SENT him.

somehow, trinity believers disregard all these simple statements.

 

[1robin]

Ok this is all nice but how is 100 AD even close to the event and how could that even be written by a Apostle himself? Even Christian historians and scholars such as F.F Bruce and Metzger don't belief that the Gospels are written by the apostles but you can belief what you want. We don't have anything from the 1st or 2nd century maybe except 4 manuscripts in length of 1 little chapter. I advice you took take a look on what kind of "Manuscripts'' we really posses before making such bold statements.

As for the Quran if you want to discuss it or debate it open an thread and ask us Muslim how we interpret those verses first.

What do you have somekind of rolodex of avatar's and an identity crisis? I see I am never going to get an answer to why you claimed this verse was not original. You did not say not true, you said not in the original Gospels. I give it up as useless. I have already given you scholars who say that the Gospels were all prior to 70AD, and written by their traditional authors, and especially the earliest sources. You do not want to agree, fine. But do not expect me to agree with scholars you provide. The issue is how you knew what you claimed and appareantly that is a bridge just too far.

 

[1robin]

Why are you twisting everything around? Typical you..

I never said that those verses are made up later you gave them a date not me, i asked for evidence that those are ''original'' stop putting words in my mouth that i never uttered. Moreover your debating yourself why even mention Shabir in your reply are you really that obsessed with him? Furthermore textual criticism has nothing to do with translations so you totally miss-presented Shabir here. Where did i claim that Matthew was a addition again putting words in my mouth. I am not going to answer your ridiculous questions because i never made such claims to start with.

So let me get this straight you are saying that a verse that is 100 years older then the event is probably written by a apostle himself?
You haven't even addressed anything i said so i don't feel guilty for not addressing your points.

What you posted here is lost on me. I just do not get most of it. You said this:

The manuscript is not even original..

I asked that if you are saying it is not an original verse how do you know that? If you are only saying that whatever manuscript was used was not original then that is reasonable but the same is true of the Quran so I did not think you were saying that. The rest of this is confusing and I have no response to it.

 

[F0uad]

What you posted here is lost on me.

Well go read your posts.

I just do not get most of it. You said this: I asked that if you are saying it is not an original verse how do you know that?

Well why don't you provide its original your making the claim it is..
I am arguing this because the verse is written 70 to 100 years after the event, secondly the gospels themselves are not original but copies what is ADMITTED BY ALL credible scholars.

If you are only saying that whatever manuscript was used was not original then that is reasonable but the same is true of the Quran so I did not think you were saying that. The rest of this is confusing and I have no response to it.

Well we Muslims never make arguments with claiming that we have the original manuscripts because there were almost no manuscripts in Mohammed's(saws) time but we do have manuscripts that date back 10 to 15 years after Mohammed(saws) if we had to use it as a argument.

 

[paarsurrey]

I have been asked to produce evidence of the divinity of Jesus. This is not just good evidence, it is overwhelming evidence.

Please quote Jesus' word where he claimed that he was god in the flesh; he never said that.

 

[1robin]

Please quote Jesus' word where he claimed that he was god in the flesh; he never said that.

Is that the test? If so then Muhammad never said he was a homo sapien so he must be a lower form of primate. This test is silly, arbitrary, and inconstant with how we know 99% of the things we know are what they are. My car did not say it was a car, must be a camel. The primary way we know what something is, is by its attributes not a declaration. Your apologists have really screwed you guys up here. I do not know whether Jesus was God or not but this has nothing to do with it.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is that the test? If so then Muhammad never said he was a homo sapien so he must be a lower form of primate. This test is silly, arbitrary, and inconstant with how we know 99% of the things we know are what they are. My car did not say it was a car, must be a camel. The primary way we know what something is, is by its attributes not a declaration. Your apologists have really screwed you guys up here. I do not know whether Jesus was God or not but this has nothing to do with it.

Please don't mind.
Is it fair to force godhead on Jesus when he never said that he was god in the flesh?

 

[Shermana]

Is that the test? If so then Muhammad never said he was a homo sapien so he must be a lower form of primate. This test is silly, arbitrary, and inconstant with how we know 99% of the things we know are what they are. My car did not say it was a car, must be a camel. The primary way we know what something is, is by its attributes not a declaration. Your apologists have really screwed you guys up here. I do not know whether Jesus was God or not but this has nothing to do with it.

In that case, Jesus's attributes are clearly not God, since he needs God's authority to do anything, and he doesn't have full knowledge of things like God does. And none of the Trintiarian "person" arguments really resolve this.

 

[paarsurrey]

In that case, Jesus's attributes are clearly not God, since he needs God's authority to do anything, and he doesn't have full knowledge of things like God does. And none of the Trintiarian "person" arguments really resolve this.

I agree with you here.

 

[1robin]

Please don't mind.

What do you mean?

Is it fair to force godhead on Jesus when he never said that he was god in the flesh?

Fair is not the appropriate concept. As a Christian it is my job to decide whether Jesus is God or not. So far I have not done so but lean towards his being divine. Is it fair to think a women not a women until she declares she is a female? Is it fair to insist there is no door into a building until the door declares it is a door? Is it fair to refuse to believe a friend is a friend until he declares he is such using words I decide he must use in the order I require? Is Jesus equivalent to God? I do not know but this is a very bad way of deciding. BTW he makes many equivalent claims to his being God. He says only God is good and only God may forgive sins, and he is sinless and he forgives sin.

 

[1robin]

In that case, Jesus's attributes are clearly not God, since he needs God's authority to do anything, and he doesn't have full knowledge of things like God does. And none of the Trintiarian "person" arguments really resolve this.

You know I am no firm trinitarian but only critique arguments used to determine it. However as Jesus was among other roles to be an example for us then his adopting voluntary dependance on the Father is a tool to convey what we are to do. It is a show of humility. Maybe one day I will make a firm stance on the issue. Right now I am content with the undeniable fact he was more than human, displayed countless divine attributes, and did things no other human has in history.