Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
That argument you responded to is the worst argument in theological history IMO. God made math he is not bound or defined by it nor even if he was is that a good argument as you have shown. God is a triune being not a additive property. One being composed by three persons.
My business is in the defense of the US and that allows for few days off. We have had a long history of being attacked on HOLY-days and seeing others having the same thing done to them so we have to work many of them so others can defend us on the others. Too bad God didn't work one day and take 6 off.I'm not interested in "debating"-- only interested in "discussing".
Have a good weekend. BTW, if you were Jewish, you wouldn't have to work tomorrow because God told us to take the day off.
I know, I was just explaining the all too real circumstances I am in. I do not believe the Sabbath laws are in effect any longer nor is a day of the weak a necessity of the purpose of them to begin with. God gave the Sabbath rules for two reasons IMO. To indicate a weak was 7 days and one was to be rested upon to establish the chronology a society would live by in order to mirror and represent the week of creation. The primary reason was to set aside one day in which we neglected earthly concerns for theological ones. I do not see either as requiring a certain day named after a Roman God to actualize but to each his own on this issue. I have no problem with those who do so and actually admire it.
No one ever wins anything here. There are no judges, no prizes, and only a rare agreement on a minor point. My mission is to defend a proposition of my faith. Yu may call that by whatever term you wish.
That was not my point.
Ok, now we can get somewhere. BTW wherever you find good reasons to doubt a specific scripture I will consider that in it's self an argument but there has to general agreement that scripture is reliable.
Ok, I have made my initial two points. You can contend with them or make a substitutionary claim and I will contend with it if I disagree.
I saw a lot of info on your approach and history but I saw no claims about what your going to not and will not do. I do not agree with the Pharisee thing as an explanation but I won't reject it and the rest sounds good but I am not sure the purpose.
I countered that I never said it was a slam dunk. I claim it was a significant or majority view from the earliest time periods. However what view was held by how many at certain time sis not really an argument unless a majority and only then it is indicative not proof.
I would expect to find things about an infinite being that a finite cannot fully grasp but a triune being or entity is not the part I have trouble with. Some of the things that must be true if a triune beings exists are a little hairy but the existence of one is not really a problem for me.
That is at best an indirect argument against the trinity. It is more about how the trinity would work more than whether it is true. I said before that I am not a big trinity defender because I do not think a conclusive case can be made but I will make comments that lean one way or the other if that is the topic you have selected. The bible says Jesus emptied himself, etc..... These verses suggest emphatically that Christ voluntarily relinquished to some of his divine capacity. Not in his nature but to his immediate consciousness. Pay attention to what I am trying to describe not the description it's self. Christ in some ways at some times was not in conscious aware of his infinite power. As you point out there are verse that pointblank suggest he was limited at least in actualizing his full power. However in others he raised the dead and healed the sick in his won name. So what best explains his having his own power but never displaying his full power. It was his multi function mission. He was to be an example to man, he was to be a visible representation of the father, he was the word, he was the messiah. To do all those he needed power but also the frailty of a human nature. Like in the Garden his Human nature was struggling with what must be done but his divine will conquered it. Just as we will have fleshly weakness but are supposed to allow the Holy Spirits strength to hold sway. If Christ had not had that struggle, had not felt pain, had not felt anguish, desperation, the separation from the perfect love he and the father had always had he would have made a poor example for us. The great Christian message is not that God stood aloof from our pain and misery, it was that he entered into it and conquered through it, not in spite of it. Only a being 100% human and 100% divine could adequately fulfill these rolls. Now before you judge this do you understand the direction I am heading in?
You can't imagine all the reasons Jesus had to be Mary's biological son, Josephs' legal son. David's curses, God's promises to him, issues of legal genealogies, etc... were perfectly met by God's actions. Two very important points before I respond directly.
Reasonable beginning.
"Halacha" (Jewish Law) has it that if there's an issue whereas one must work on the Sabbath in order to take care of one's family, and if there is no realistic alternative, then one may violate the Sabbath but only for those hours that are absolutely necessary. This also applies to health concerns as well.
In Christianity, Sunday was traditionally referred to as "the Lord's Day", with the "Lord" being Jesus. As for "Shabbat", it starts at Friday evening sundown and goes through Saturday evening sundown. It is really a special experience to celebrate this in Israel, especially Jerusalem, when it happens. It's such a beautiful experience.
BTW, one of my granddaughters was in Israel this summer with what was called the "Teen Mission", but they did have to come home early because of the rockets from Gaza, one of which landed less than a mile from where they were staying. She loved it so much there that she wants to go back next year and is thinking about maybe moving there permanently after college. This last weekend some of the Israelis they stayed with came here to our area, with some attending our Simcha Torah service Friday night, and my granddaughter just had a riot there and stayed up until 6:30 in the morning talking with them.
When I've talked with people who have been to Israel, I say something like this: "One doesn't visit Israel-- one experiences it". And literally every one I've used those words with light right up and they know exactly what I'm saying. Regardless of your religious persuasion, please go if you have the opportunity.
Sorry for rant.
BTW, did I tell you that I work for the Israel Travel Bureau?
