Did Jesus suffer?

[SunMessenger]

With respect, I think that you hope in vain.

I would never wish to dismiss the suffering of any human being. And according to this story this man was brutally whipped, suspended by his hands and wrists and then stabbed. He suffered horrendously.

But did he suffer more than I can imagine? I only wish my imagination was so poor.

Christ was not the first man to be crucified, nor was he the last. We are even told that there were others crucified right along side him. If there is one thing that human beings truly excel at it is causing pain to other human beings. You can find historical records of people being brutally tortured for weeks before they were allowed to die. And often this was even done in the name of religion.


Some people suffer from excruciatingly painful diseases that cause them to live for years of absolute agony. Some children are born suffering from all manor of physical defects only to die horribly hours, days or even weeks latter. The only thing that we can be sure of in life is death and suffering.

I am sorry to be so morose about this, and I don’t mean offend anyone’s religious beliefs, but I just felt that I had to put this story of suffering into some context.

The point being and question remaining... What was Jesus crime ??? Even the others on that horrible day admitted they had done something wrong. What was Jesus crime ??? There was no crime. That adds to the atrocity. Many people suffer daily from serious illness . You are correct. Some of that is needless suffering that could be medically corrected. That is however another issue. I don't wish to mix the apple cart with anymore oranges in an attempt to stay on point. Thank You...

 

[steelblue75]

[quote=steelblue75]so jesus didnt have to die for our sins? does that mean he could have said no before god sent him to earth? the "you know what i just really dont wanna be hung on a cross and have sharp things put in my body... think ill pass thanks anyway" defiant teenager thing? to seriously think that he "didnt have to" when that was his purpose was being sent here to "die for our sins so that whosoever believeth in him shall not persish but have everlasting life" do you feel badly for crash test dummies that serve their purpose? i dont and as for would i do it for people that hated me? not a chance.... i will do anything for those i love and that love me in return but i wont suffer needlessly for someone who wont appreciate it..

the reason i asked about how long he was tormented is because of one simple fact...... go to a domestic abuse clinic and talk to the people there that were tormented for YEARS by the ones they loved (father, brother, uncle e tc) and then tell me no one has ever been tormented like jesus..... difference being those people are obviously suffering for no greater gain for humanity... most times they suffer in silence...... i feel more horrified by that than a myth about the "son of god" and his torment

The bottom line is that you don't believe Jesus even existed. Then why not argue in the hypothetical . Why not respect the feelings of those that do believe and not inadvertently offend . Keep it simple . It really works... Be Well and God Bless...[/quote]

ok let me put it into context... did i shed tears when i read the story of achilles? nope did i cry when i watched old yeller? nope did i cry when bambis mom got shot? nope... you see i can not hypothically argue that jesus was the son of god.... you may believe that and be moved by his suffering but as you pointed out i dont believe he existed and IF he did i dont think it was as the son of god but as a man who had a w ay with people and he was well liked by many.... you have to remember in that day and age it didnt take much for people to assosiate god like qualities to ordinary things.... rocks, volcanos, thunderstorms.....etc am i going to take someones word for something that i have never witnessed? no

do you honestly beleive EVERY single verse in the bible is accurate and without errors? if you do you would be a great fool... fact is man corrupts everything he touches for his own means and many many many men have handled the translations of the bible and many men told the story of the bible...... i just dont think they got the story accurate and are making mountains out of mohills

 

[SunMessenger]

am i going to take someones word for something that i have never witnessed? no

do you honestly beleive EVERY single verse in the bible is accurate and without errors? if you do you would be a great fool... fact is man corrupts everything he touches for his own means and many many many men have handled the translations of the bible and many men told the story of the bible...... i just dont think they got the story accurate and are making mountains out of mohills[/quote]

How do you know the bible is not accurate? I don't put my hand in the fire because of what I have been taught as a child. It will burn me. Do I need to challenge those teachings too ? I think not. I am not a fool ... Be Well and God Bless...

 

[Ody]

who is steve jobs? *thinking i should work less and watch tv more so i know what in the heck is going on in the world*

That is blasphemy to my tech geekness.... he founded apple computers..

 

[steelblue75]

am i going to take someones word for something that i have never witnessed? no

do you honestly beleive EVERY single verse in the bible is accurate and without errors? if you do you would be a great fool... fact is man corrupts everything he touches for his own means and many many many men have handled the translations of the bible and many men told the story of the bible...... i just dont think they got the story accurate and are making mountains out of mohills

How do you know the bible is not accurate? I don't put my hand in the fire because of what I have been taught as a child. It will burn me. Do I need to challenge those teachings too ? I think not. I am not a fool ... Be Well and God Bless...[/quote]

first.... the crime jesus committed (in the eyes of the ruling cast) was preaching a religion outside the mainstream one... in those times that was more than enough to earn a death sentence... second the bible has so many inconsistancies in it that im not even going to try and list them... third all teachings are not always accurate... example ... get that look off your face before it freezes there..... sometimes you have to touch the fire to know its hot and sometimes you have to question what you're taught to follow blindly in my opinion is very foolish

 

[fantome profane]

The point being and question remaining... What was Jesus crime ??? Even the others on that horrible day admitted they had done something wrong. What was Jesus crime ??? There was no crime. That adds to the atrocity. Many people suffer daily from serious illness . You are correct. Some of that is needless suffering that could be medically corrected. That is however another issue. I don't wish to mix the apple cart with anymore oranges in an attempt to stay on point. Thank You...

Yes, I understand, Jesus was innocent. I never suggested that he committed any crime or deserved to suffer in this way. He did not deserve to suffer in this way.

But does that mean that everybody else deserves to suffer? The men who are mentioned being crucified with him admitted they were guilty, but did they do anything that would really justify this kind of sentence? Do you believe that Jesus was the only innocent man to ever be crucified? If you accept the story of a legal system that could convict and sentence an innocent man to such a death, is it not reasonable to believe that it had happened before, and/or that it happened again? Is it not possible that several other completely innocent men were falsely accused and convicted in such a society? Is it not possible others were unfairly sentenced to the same fate? I think that you will have to admit that Jesus was not the only innocent man to ever be brutally tortured and killed.

This is a story about an innocent man who suffered horribly. I am simply pointing out that other innocent men have also suffered just as much if not more. Seems like apples and apples to me.

 

[steelblue75]

That is blasphemy to my tech geekness.... he founded apple computers..

i think that might have been a little bit before my time maybe.... possibly im not old but im not young..... *covers grey hairs*

 

[finalfrogo]

With respect, I think that you hope in vain.

I would never wish to dismiss the suffering of any human being. And according to this story this man was brutally whipped, suspended by his hands and wrists and then stabbed. He suffered horrendously.

But did he suffer more than I can imagine? I only wish my imagination was so poor.

Christ was not the first man to be crucified, nor was he the last. We are even told that there were others crucified right along side him. If there is one thing that human beings truly excel at it is causing pain to other human beings. You can find historical records of people being brutally tortured for weeks before they were allowed to die. And often this was even done in the name of religion.


Some people suffer from excruciatingly painful diseases that cause them to live for years of absolute agony. Some children are born suffering from all manor of physical defects only to die horribly hours, days or even weeks latter. The only thing that we can be sure of in life is death and suffering.

I am sorry to be so morose about this, and I don’t mean offend anyone’s religious beliefs, but I just felt that I had to put this story of suffering into some context.

I would have done that myself, had I not already seen this post.

 

[finalfrogo]

The point being and question remaining... What was Jesus crime ??? Even the others on that horrible day admitted they had done something wrong. What was Jesus crime ??? There was no crime.

Jesus' crime was either religious blasphemy or political sedition. Crucifixion was a punishment distributed by the Roman government as a punishment for political sedition, while the punishment for religious blasphemy was stone-throwing, so his crime was most likely political sedition.

 

[SunMessenger]

Yes, I understand, Jesus was innocent. I never suggested that he committed any crime or deserved to suffer in this way. He did not deserve to suffer in this way.

But does that mean that everybody else deserves to suffer? The men who are mentioned being crucified with him admitted they were guilty, but did they do anything that would really justify this kind of sentence? Do you believe that Jesus was the only innocent man to ever be crucified? If you accept the story of a legal system that could convict and sentence an innocent man to such a death, is it not reasonable to believe that it had happened before, and/or that it happened again? Is it not possible that several other completely innocent men were falsely accused and convicted in such a society? Is it not possible others were unfairly sentenced to the same fate? I think that you will have to admit that Jesus was not the only innocent man to ever be brutally tortured and killed.

This is a story about an innocent man who suffered horribly. I am simply pointing out that other innocent men have also suffered just as much if not more. Seems like apples and apples to me.

Most of this last quote I agree with. Many innocents had the potential to be unjustly murdered under such a corrupt system as was in place . That in no way justifies anything. To one who believes that Jesus was the Son of God the injustice of this particular murder cuts very deep . Not only was an innocent man murdered but an innocent man with only love in his heart for all even those who accused him and killed him. Once again that is the crux of this atrocity. God Bless...

 

[fantome profane]

To one who believes that Jesus was the Son of God the injustice of this particular murder cuts very deep . Not only was an innocent man murdered but an innocent man with only love in his heart for all even those who accused him and killed him. Once again that is the crux of this atrocity. God Bless...

All right, I think I understand your position now. But just to try to explain where I am coming from and why I bothered to make the points I did I would like to say this.


To one who believes that we are all “children of God” all suffering is important to me, and all innocent suffering is to me an atrocity.


And I think that a man who had only love in his heart would see it the same way.

 

[steelblue75]

ok i know you really dont want m y opinion on this because it is upsetting but hey life is all about having to face less that desireable things on a daily basis so here goes.... jesus was a MAN 33 years old if im not mistaken tortured and killed by other men.... he supposedly had only love in his heart and was incapable of sin.... but when i hear in the news of a child normally a very small child who was beaten so severely by his father that he no longer has proper motor functions and must live the rest of a very miserable life that way tends to affect me more than 6 hours of torture before death ends that torment..... some see the death sentence as a better option than life in prison... at least jesus had his torment end upon his death after a FEW hours.... maybe if he had suffered all through his childhood with the same things happening i might be more sympathetic if he continued to love but gee there is nothing in the bible about his childhood except his birth unless you go to the gnostic gospels and heaven forbid anyone say jesus was anything but perfect.... in those documents it tells of his childhood and how he killed a teacher for upsetting him and also a child for bumping into him in the street.... they were written about jesus so they must be true right? no because you wont believe he could have been possible of such a feat just as i dont believe he was crucified to die for my sins.... the only sins he died to clear were his own and that was for defying the current religious and governmental system thats called a martyr...... his death where brutal was NORMAL for that day and age and in our day and age we have people sawing other peoples heads off with a knife while they still live.... where are your tears for those people?

 

[Super Universe]

Jesus did not suffer the most of any human. But then who claimed He did?

Do you think that His suffering is the only way to justify Him being the Son of God?

If you wish to read about Jesus childhood it can be found here:
http://www.urantia.org/papers/toc.html#PARTIV

 

[steelblue75]

Jesus did not suffer the most of any human. But then who claimed He did?

Do you think that His suffering is the only way to justify Him being the Son of God?

If you wish to read about Jesus childhood it can be found here:
http://www.urantia.org/papers/toc.html#PARTIV

ok so you popped up a link to some organizations website... once again im not duly impressed... there were no sources that i can tell came from any biblical documents so i guess that was someones version of the childhood of christ? and i never said he was the son of god i said he wasnt...... and there have been numerous posts about how he suffered the worse.... s ometimes it helps to read more than just one post per topic:tuna:

 

[SoyLeche]

Christ, in a way that is not really understandable, suffered ALL things. If you have ever felt depressed - he felt that. If you have been abused - he felt that. And he didn't just feel the general feelings - he felt the exact thing that YOU felt. It's mind-boggling, but it's true. He suffered for all of our pains, sicknesses and infirmities as well as our sins. He understands what you are going through, because he has been through it. The large majority of this happened in the Garden of Gethsemene the night before his crucifiction. I believe that the torture that the Romans put him through was nothing compared to what he had already suffered for us.

Alma 7:11-12 http://scriptures.lds.org/alma/7document.write(drawVerse(11,122470));

11 And he shall go forth, suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people.

&nbsp1212 And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.

 

[telecino]

For every master of every religion, every saint and holy person, that went thru a painful experience, there is reference that there was "pain". Why should it be different for Jesus?

On the other hand, other saints, holy person or master, used pain to get to a form of bliss, where pain ceased to be interpreted as a negative experience, but a way to release the hold on the limited human experience and join with a higher experience of life, where pain and pleasure are perceived differently.

So, i guess we could imagine that some masters feel pain in seemingly painful experiences, while others dont. Is it important to define if Jesus himself was one of those "pain-is-bliss" people? I don't think so. Then again, Jesus is not the center of my faith.

 

[steelblue75]

Christ, in a way that is not really understandable, suffered ALL things. If you have ever felt depressed - he felt that. If you have been abused - he felt that. And he didn't just feel the general feelings - he felt the exact thing that YOU felt. It's mind-boggling, but it's true. He suffered for all of our pains, sicknesses and infirmities as well as our sins. He understands what you are going through, because he has been through it. The large majority of this happened in the Garden of Gethsemene the night before his crucifiction. I believe that the torture that the Romans put him through was nothing compared to what he had already suffered for us.

Alma 7:11-12 http://scriptures.lds.org/alma/7document.write(drawVerse(11,122470));

11 And he shall go forth, suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind; and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains and the sicknesses of his people.

&nbsp1212 And he will take upon him death, that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people; and he will take upon him their infirmities, that his bowels may be filled with mercy, according to the flesh, that he may know according to the flesh how to succor his people according to their infirmities.

thats all fine and good soy.... but for that to be truth i would have to believe he was the son of god and i dont:banghead3 *wonders why no one has grasped that point yet*

 

[Super Universe]

ok so you popped up a link to some organizations website... once again im not duly impressed... there were no sources that i can tell came from any biblical documents so i guess that was someones version of the childhood of christ? and i never said he was the son of god i said he wasnt...... and there have been numerous posts about how he suffered the worse.... s ometimes it helps to read more than just one post per topic:tuna:

Impressed? You think I am trying to impress you? Hehe.

You are not impressed with the creation of the universe so why would I waste my time attempting that?

 

[steelblue75]

methinks bill is evil for posting this thread ..... and strangely i like h im for that:devil:

 

[steelblue75]

Impressed? You think I am trying to impress you? Hehe.

You are not impressed with the creation of the universe so why would I waste my time attempting that?

sorry but i wasnt impressed by alot of the stories ive read claming to be religious texts.... and i figure why be so obsessed with the creation of reality if you refuse to live in it im impressed by the size of the universe and the possibilities within it but that doesnt mean i have to accept someone elses version of its beginning