testudoaubreii
New Member
Hello,
As you all can probably tell, I am new here, so again hello. I was reading through a thread and some one mentioned some similarities between the teaching of Jesus and Buddhism. I got me thinking about something I heard not too long ago. I went on a research trek and I believe that, if there really was a Jesus, the Jesus that we were taught anyway, there is a strong possibility that he could have actually survived the crucifixion and quite possibly relocated to the Kashmir region of India.
*I had to split what I wrote into 2 posts.*
All of the prior versions of the gospel of Mark state that what the Jesuss tomb was simply empty. No talk of resurrection, just an empty cave where the body of Jesus should have been. There was no talk of the resurrection until it was added to the gospel of Mark 200 years later. The gospels are supposed to be taken as historical evidence, but they simply are not and they were written to establish the relevance of Jesus and the message that he was trying to convey. Although the gospels did this very well, the authors where not essentially concerned with what really happened. They wanted a story that could help win over potential converts.
We have some accounts from the resurrection from Luke, Matthew and John, but their stories are not on the same page with one another. The gospel of Luke states that after the resurrection, Jesus met with two disciples, names unknown, and they were not familiar with him, that is they did not recognize him. Jesus then meets with the other eleven disciples before they part ways near Jerusalem. The gospel of Matthew states that he met two women by his tomb and then proceeded to convene with each of his disciples individually on a mountain in the town of Galilee. Johns account state the Mary Magdalene visited the tomb and saw that the stone in front of the tomb had been moved and rushed over to get Paul. When they entered the tomb, they saw nothing but the things that they used to bury Jesus with. After the men went home, she stayed and saw two angels and Jesus. Jesus told her not to hold on to him because he has not yet ascended. She then exclaims to everyone that she has seen the lord. No one knows for sure what the reactions of the others were to her account.
To many, the reason why there are different points of view on how the resurrection went down is because the accounts were not penned because a holy miracle happened, but because of a totally political motive. You see, most of the assumed witnesses of the resurrection of Jesus were also the first leaders of the church. Some even suggest that the authors may have used this extraordinary account of the resurrection as a psychological machine to help reign in the potential converts.
We can read the gospels and find out that Jesus drank and ate with his followers, even going as far as allowing Thomas touch his wounds. How could that have happened if he died on the cross? There is a book, The Passover Plot, 1965, that suggests that Jesus was somehow sedated while he was on the cross and that it appeared that he was dead. It also states that because of this he was taken down from the cross earlier than expected. While on the cross, some of the disciples were actually able to give Jesus something via a sponge. "They filled the sponge with vinegar and put it upon hyssop and put it to his mouth." - John 19:29 Jesus immediately died after taking this substance. "When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said it is finished." - John 19:30.
Sedation is not the only reason to believe that Jesus may have survived the crucifixion. There is an account of a crucifixion survival story recorded by the Jewish historian Josephus. He was sent to survey land for a Roman garrison somewhere near Palestine and he came across three of his friends hanging from crosses. He immediately requested for the three men to be taken down and General Titus granted permission. They cut down and received medical attention. Two of his friends died, but the other survived the crucifixion.
According to the gospels, the story goes that the day of the Sabbath was coming up, so the Romans wanted to make sure that the three men that were being crucified, were dead before the Sabbath. The Romans saw that two of the three men were still alive, so they broke their legs to speed up the execution process. The third man, however, seemed limp and lifeless so they assumed that he was dead and did not break his legs. That man was Jesus.
The crucifixion of Jesus happened very quickly, perhaps too quickly. The Romans said that Jesus was on the cross for 6 hours, they checked the body and they assumed he was dead. He was cut down and sealed in his tomb, for he was dead. However, was he dead, clinically dead? Some concerns about whether he is dead are brought to the surface because it is said that Joseph of Arimathea brought certain herbs into the tomb that were not necessarily used for the embalming process. He brought in aloes and they were used more for their medicinal purposes. There are story all over the world, from ancient time to the present day where people who are assumed to be dead, that is they are non-responsive to what is going on around them, but then are revived or resuscitated. Let us take Lazarus for example. He arose from the dead 4 days after his presumable death. Was he resurrected or resuscitated?
When we start to talk about whether or not Jesus was crucified and the resurrected, it obviously becomes very controversial. However, it is clearly stated in every gospel that the disciples viewed Jesus after his death in such a way that was very much alive. This information does not mean that the story of the resurrection was a put on show or a calculated deception. There is an idea that was brought forth by the English author Samuel Butler, and it is that if Jesus was sent into a socked induced coma while suffering on the cross and then recovered while in the tomb, then Jesus and all of the disciples would have viewed his resurrection as a miracle.
The disciples where just ordinary people that thought they saw an extraordinary event. People have near death experiences all over the world. Some say that they see this brilliant light and it is looked upon as some sort of miraculous sign. However, in the ancient times did not have the technology and the knowledge that we do today. They did not have the scientific equipment that we do today to revive people from what appears to be a dead state. Therefore, it does make sense for the disciples that saw the resurrection, looked upon Jesuss revival as a miracle or an act of god.
Let us say that somehow Jesus survived the crucifixion. Now, there is a big problem for Jesus and his disciples. If Jesus were alive after the execution, he would still be a wanted man. In the Bible, Jesus is taken away through the act of ascension, where his body is lifted up into heaven. There is only one problem with the ascension story and that is that it is not stated anywhere in the early or original forms of the Bible. When we do see the first story of the ascension is also, where we also see the first mention of the resurrection, which is in the Gospel of Mark. Moreover, like the resurrection story, it was added 200 years later. There is no story of the ascension in the Gospel of Matthew. Interestingly enough, there is no mention of the ascension in the Gospel of John, but the very end states, And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. - John 21:25.
So, if Jesus did not ascend into heaven, what did he do? He had to do something because he could not certainly hang around in Golgotha. He would have to flee somewhere. Where, though? It is thought that Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a very special relationship, perhaps that they were married and maybe even had children. If we are to try to find out where Jesus would have and could have fled to, let us take a look of where Mary is said to have gone. The legend says that Mary, and some companions, fled to the south of France. It is also said that one of her companions was Jesus and Marys daughter, Sarah. Sarah was disguised and traveled as Marys servant. Is it possible that Jesus was also traveling in disguise to evade the Roman forces? This story does sound doubtful. Surely, if Jesus was known to be alive, there would have been some mention of this escape somewhere and his followers would be expecting his return.
In fact, they were expecting his return. His followers were expecting the second coming. However, nowhere does it state that this second coming of Jesus was going to be a miraculous event. There is no doubt that some of us view the resurrection story in different ways. However, whether he survived or was resurrected, Jesus does disappear. Jesus tells the disciples that he is leaving. When they ask if they can follow him, he says no, he tells them not to worry, and that he will one day return. It was only when he did not return that the second coming on judgment day was created.
As you all can probably tell, I am new here, so again hello. I was reading through a thread and some one mentioned some similarities between the teaching of Jesus and Buddhism. I got me thinking about something I heard not too long ago. I went on a research trek and I believe that, if there really was a Jesus, the Jesus that we were taught anyway, there is a strong possibility that he could have actually survived the crucifixion and quite possibly relocated to the Kashmir region of India.
*I had to split what I wrote into 2 posts.*
All of the prior versions of the gospel of Mark state that what the Jesuss tomb was simply empty. No talk of resurrection, just an empty cave where the body of Jesus should have been. There was no talk of the resurrection until it was added to the gospel of Mark 200 years later. The gospels are supposed to be taken as historical evidence, but they simply are not and they were written to establish the relevance of Jesus and the message that he was trying to convey. Although the gospels did this very well, the authors where not essentially concerned with what really happened. They wanted a story that could help win over potential converts.
We have some accounts from the resurrection from Luke, Matthew and John, but their stories are not on the same page with one another. The gospel of Luke states that after the resurrection, Jesus met with two disciples, names unknown, and they were not familiar with him, that is they did not recognize him. Jesus then meets with the other eleven disciples before they part ways near Jerusalem. The gospel of Matthew states that he met two women by his tomb and then proceeded to convene with each of his disciples individually on a mountain in the town of Galilee. Johns account state the Mary Magdalene visited the tomb and saw that the stone in front of the tomb had been moved and rushed over to get Paul. When they entered the tomb, they saw nothing but the things that they used to bury Jesus with. After the men went home, she stayed and saw two angels and Jesus. Jesus told her not to hold on to him because he has not yet ascended. She then exclaims to everyone that she has seen the lord. No one knows for sure what the reactions of the others were to her account.
To many, the reason why there are different points of view on how the resurrection went down is because the accounts were not penned because a holy miracle happened, but because of a totally political motive. You see, most of the assumed witnesses of the resurrection of Jesus were also the first leaders of the church. Some even suggest that the authors may have used this extraordinary account of the resurrection as a psychological machine to help reign in the potential converts.
We can read the gospels and find out that Jesus drank and ate with his followers, even going as far as allowing Thomas touch his wounds. How could that have happened if he died on the cross? There is a book, The Passover Plot, 1965, that suggests that Jesus was somehow sedated while he was on the cross and that it appeared that he was dead. It also states that because of this he was taken down from the cross earlier than expected. While on the cross, some of the disciples were actually able to give Jesus something via a sponge. "They filled the sponge with vinegar and put it upon hyssop and put it to his mouth." - John 19:29 Jesus immediately died after taking this substance. "When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said it is finished." - John 19:30.
Sedation is not the only reason to believe that Jesus may have survived the crucifixion. There is an account of a crucifixion survival story recorded by the Jewish historian Josephus. He was sent to survey land for a Roman garrison somewhere near Palestine and he came across three of his friends hanging from crosses. He immediately requested for the three men to be taken down and General Titus granted permission. They cut down and received medical attention. Two of his friends died, but the other survived the crucifixion.
According to the gospels, the story goes that the day of the Sabbath was coming up, so the Romans wanted to make sure that the three men that were being crucified, were dead before the Sabbath. The Romans saw that two of the three men were still alive, so they broke their legs to speed up the execution process. The third man, however, seemed limp and lifeless so they assumed that he was dead and did not break his legs. That man was Jesus.
The crucifixion of Jesus happened very quickly, perhaps too quickly. The Romans said that Jesus was on the cross for 6 hours, they checked the body and they assumed he was dead. He was cut down and sealed in his tomb, for he was dead. However, was he dead, clinically dead? Some concerns about whether he is dead are brought to the surface because it is said that Joseph of Arimathea brought certain herbs into the tomb that were not necessarily used for the embalming process. He brought in aloes and they were used more for their medicinal purposes. There are story all over the world, from ancient time to the present day where people who are assumed to be dead, that is they are non-responsive to what is going on around them, but then are revived or resuscitated. Let us take Lazarus for example. He arose from the dead 4 days after his presumable death. Was he resurrected or resuscitated?
When we start to talk about whether or not Jesus was crucified and the resurrected, it obviously becomes very controversial. However, it is clearly stated in every gospel that the disciples viewed Jesus after his death in such a way that was very much alive. This information does not mean that the story of the resurrection was a put on show or a calculated deception. There is an idea that was brought forth by the English author Samuel Butler, and it is that if Jesus was sent into a socked induced coma while suffering on the cross and then recovered while in the tomb, then Jesus and all of the disciples would have viewed his resurrection as a miracle.
The disciples where just ordinary people that thought they saw an extraordinary event. People have near death experiences all over the world. Some say that they see this brilliant light and it is looked upon as some sort of miraculous sign. However, in the ancient times did not have the technology and the knowledge that we do today. They did not have the scientific equipment that we do today to revive people from what appears to be a dead state. Therefore, it does make sense for the disciples that saw the resurrection, looked upon Jesuss revival as a miracle or an act of god.
Let us say that somehow Jesus survived the crucifixion. Now, there is a big problem for Jesus and his disciples. If Jesus were alive after the execution, he would still be a wanted man. In the Bible, Jesus is taken away through the act of ascension, where his body is lifted up into heaven. There is only one problem with the ascension story and that is that it is not stated anywhere in the early or original forms of the Bible. When we do see the first story of the ascension is also, where we also see the first mention of the resurrection, which is in the Gospel of Mark. Moreover, like the resurrection story, it was added 200 years later. There is no story of the ascension in the Gospel of Matthew. Interestingly enough, there is no mention of the ascension in the Gospel of John, but the very end states, And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. - John 21:25.
So, if Jesus did not ascend into heaven, what did he do? He had to do something because he could not certainly hang around in Golgotha. He would have to flee somewhere. Where, though? It is thought that Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a very special relationship, perhaps that they were married and maybe even had children. If we are to try to find out where Jesus would have and could have fled to, let us take a look of where Mary is said to have gone. The legend says that Mary, and some companions, fled to the south of France. It is also said that one of her companions was Jesus and Marys daughter, Sarah. Sarah was disguised and traveled as Marys servant. Is it possible that Jesus was also traveling in disguise to evade the Roman forces? This story does sound doubtful. Surely, if Jesus was known to be alive, there would have been some mention of this escape somewhere and his followers would be expecting his return.
In fact, they were expecting his return. His followers were expecting the second coming. However, nowhere does it state that this second coming of Jesus was going to be a miraculous event. There is no doubt that some of us view the resurrection story in different ways. However, whether he survived or was resurrected, Jesus does disappear. Jesus tells the disciples that he is leaving. When they ask if they can follow him, he says no, he tells them not to worry, and that he will one day return. It was only when he did not return that the second coming on judgment day was created.
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