Did Moses in fact exist?

[Caladan]

OK, whatever. This is exactly what I said about some archaeologists having a set agenda to disprove the Bible. You've already decided your atheism is more important than anything else, and you're not interested in anything that might disturb that. I know better than to waste my time trying to open a closed mind.

Ad hominem are a wonderful vessel of proof for one side losing a debate.
thank you Rabbi and see you again in the next round. make sure you bring your copy of the Bible. and I'll make sure I'll bring my trowel.

 

[England my lionheart]

I am not sure. I know I certainly don't believe the Moses of the Bible exists. If an actual Moses had existed, or an Egyptian figure the Hebrew Moses was based on, he had to have been radically different then what the book of Exodus puts forth.

Thoughts?

The story of Moses bears a lot of similarity with that of Sargon the Sumerian King,i see no reason to believe there was an actual Moses or even an Exodus because such a massive movement of that many people wandering around the Desert for 40 years one would think they would leave some sign of their existence.

 

[outhouse]

But what I was saying was that there has not been direct archaeological evidence uncovered so far supporting the Exodus narrative and the existence of a historical Moses

this might not be true, we know people did leave egypt and there has been evidence of this.

we know the moses tale in the bible is mostly fiction, much of the real story was based only on a small percent of non fiction.

 

[Levite]

Ad hominem are a wonderful vessel of proof for one side losing a debate.
thank you Rabbi and see you again in the next round. make sure you bring your copy of the Bible. and I'll make sure I'll bring my trowel.

OK, looking back, I see that I worded what I said too harshly. I still think that you're determined not to see beyond your atheist position, and I don't concede my point, but I shouldn't have dismissively referred to you as closed-minded, and I should have said what I said in a less disrespectful way.

I apologize.

 

[Caladan]

OK, looking back, I see that I worded what I said too harshly. I still think that you're determined not to see beyond your atheist position

Of course not. it's the only thing that will keep a man sane in this world.

and I don't concede my point, but I shouldn't have dismissively referred to you as closed-minded, and I should have said what I said in a less disrespectful way.

I apologize.

No need to apologize. since we both know we'll both be back at it the next day. it's what makes us so damn interesting to debate.

 

[Hawkins]

I am not sure. I know I certainly don't believe the Moses of the Bible exists. If an actual Moses had existed, or an Egyptian figure the Hebrew Moses was based on, he had to have been radically different then what the book of Exodus puts forth.

Thoughts?

All kinds of history will require faith to believe in, either you choose to believe in what the historians said, or to believe what the Jews said about what is claimed to be witnessed.

 

[Caladan]

All kinds of history will require faith to believe in, either you choose to believe in what the historians said, or to believe what the Jews said about what is claimed to be witnessed.

I think there are much more options and possibilities than that.

 

[BigRed]

That's like saying that Washington didn't exist because he believed Jesus was real.

Not exactly....Washington was just a man. Christians think Jesus was a God.
Gods are supposed to know almost everything.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Not exactly....Washington was just a man. Christians think Jesus was a God.
Gods are supposed to know almost everything.

Not everyone believes Jesus was god you know, and even if he was, he was a god with human limitations. He was in human form, and probably didn't remember before he was born anymore then we do.

 

[outhouse]

anyone interested in this subject regarding the exodus and real history should watch this whole piece and all its parts.

[youtube]VBBvvDl25F4[/youtube]
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=VBBvvDl25F4

it has the latest work to date done on the subject. Take what you can from it, its all opinion but there is real history to be learned.

 

[Ilisrum]

anyone interested in this subject regarding the exodus and real history should watch this whole piece and all its parts.

[youtube]VBBvvDl25F4[/youtube]
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=VBBvvDl25F4

it has the latest work to date done on the subject. Take what you can from it, its all opinion but there is real history to be learned.

Simcha Jacobovici has a habit of taking whatever he can find to fit his predetermined conceptions and running with it. As an orthodox Jew, it's not surprising that he'd want the story to be true. It's just bad science. Remember, he was the guy who stood behind the Talpiot tomb as the burial place of Jesus and his family a few years back.

It's possible that there was a man named Moses who was remembered in Israelite folklore as a leader and lawgiver. I think it's unlikely that the biblical Moses existed, though.

 

[outhouse]

Simcha Jacobovici has a habit of taking whatever he can find to fit his predetermined conceptions and running with it. As an orthodox Jew, it's not surprising that he'd want the story to be true. It's just bad science. Remember, he was the guy who stood behind the Talpiot tomb as the burial place of Jesus and his family a few years back.

It's possible that there was a man named Moses who was remembered in Israelite folklore as a leader and lawgiver. I think it's unlikely that the biblical Moses existed, though.

I agree whole hearted

he switched, dodged and dragged information where he wanted to to make his story work.

But there was some good stuff in it as well, thats why I pointed it out that it was just his opinion.

it showed exactly how little we know about the exodus.

 

[Ilisrum]

I agree whole hearted

he switched, dodged and dragged information where he wanted to to make his story work.

But there was some good stuff in it as well, thats why I pointed it out that it was just his opinion.

it showed exactly how little we know about the exodus.

Yeah, I enjoyed the documentary when I first saw it also. It's entertaining and the effects are good. Most of his documentries are enjoyable. Unfortunately, anything by Simcha can't stand on its own. If there ever was an exodus, it's forever lost in the myth-smoke.

 

[outhouse]

anything by Simcha can't stand on its own

no kidding it only took 2 minutes and I had him figured out.

 

[DoctorAnswerMan]

Why would one conclude that Moses did not exist? Is he guilty until proven innocent? Or should we say mythical until proven factual? I have no reason to doubt the existence of Moses any more than I do to doubt the existence of ancient Egyptian Pharaohs.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Why would one conclude that Moses did not exist? Is he guilty until proven innocent? Or should we say mythical until proven factual? I have no reason to doubt the existence of Moses any more than I do to doubt the existence of ancient Egyptian Pharaohs.

The problem is one has a lot more evidence then the other

 

[outhouse]

Why would one conclude that Moses did not exist?

because 900 year old people have never existed, its a myth with no evidence at all.

Is he guilty until proven innocent?

myths can be neither

Or should we say mythical until proven factual?

it wont be proven factual and it should be taken for what it is.

I have no reason to doubt the existence of Moses any more than I do to doubt the existence of ancient Egyptian Pharaohs.

we have evidence and thousands of written records for pharaohs and bodies with name tombs.

with moses with have a mythical charactor, written down in a book of fables, that was told orally for hundreds of years before many books by many unknown authors were compiled into what we have today, told as a fictional fable.

 

[Juhur]

The problem is one has a lot more evidence then the other

It depends on what kind of evidence we are talking about, we are talking about the Exodus of Jews and it's not like it has never happened before how many Jewish exoduses do we know up until recent history? more then just a Egyptian one up until the exodus from Arab lands in 1950's and 1960's, sure it might have been a different kind but it happened so many times. Egyptian evidence is the evidence of dead people who can't tell their story but Jews can because it constantly happens to them.

I would conclude that some kind of Jewish exodus did occur as the existence of some kind of Moses.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

It depends on what kind of evidence we are talking about, we are talking about the Exodus of Jews and it's not like it has never happened before how many Jewish exoduses do we know up until recent history? more then just a Egyptian one up until the exodus from Arab lands in 1950's and 1960's, sure it might have been a different kind but it happened so many times. Egyptian evidence is the evidence of dead people who can't tell their story but Jews can because it constantly happens to them.

I would conclude that some kind of Jewish exodus did occur as the existence of some kind of Moses.

Sure you're free to if you like, there's just really no evidence

 

[kai]

did Moses exist ? the juries still out surely? who knows ? evidence could be lying in the sand. or we could never know.

Anyway i am no expert but you have to take oral history into account so i think the probability is he did exist but he has been embellished somewhat.