Did Muhammed exist?

[Cypress]

I have read this book (in German) with great interest.

From Jesus to Muhamad:

MHMD was in ancient Ugarit the root for „golden“. This developped in Mesopotamia (inhabited by the „Arabi“) into „muhamad/un“ for „blessed, to be praised“ and into the titel muhamad which was nothing else but „Christ“. This, the christian „Muhamadism“ moved with Abdel Malik from Eastern Persia to Palestine. Nothing was known then, in the 7th century, of a place called Mekka and a prophet Muhamad. Jerusalem was the center of the „followers of the muhamad“ (as the Koran confirms ,by the way). In 9th century only the stories of a prophet from Mekka named Muhamad with his holy book Koran started circulating, the specific Arab monophysite christianity developped into an own religion called Islam.

It seems that there is considerably doubt on the existance of Muhammed amongst some academics, for instance Muhammad Sven Kalisch who teaches Muslim theology at the University of Munster.

Could it be that Islam is just the result of a big mistake?

 

[Shia Islam]

I have read this book (in German) with great interest.

It seems that there is considerably doubt on the existance of Muhammed amongst some academics, for instance Muhammad Sven Kalisch who teaches Muslim theology at the University of Munster.

Could it be that Islam is just the result of a big mistake?

Copying Christianity questions about Jesus and pasting them as questions about Muhammad does not work.

The problem with many people is that their hate prohibit them form thinking.
The Whole Arabian peninsula was a quiet barn desert, and the arrival of Muhammad was an earthquake that has shaken the world since his death up until now...

with respect to the author...
No well educated person will doubt the existence of Muhammad....

 

[Cypress]

Copying Christianity questions about Jesus and pasting them as questions about Muhammad does not work.

I wasn't copying "Christianity questions about Jesus", I read about an interesting theory and want to know what others think about it.

No well educated person will doubt the existence of Muhammad....

Can you please give us sources that prove the existence of Muhammed & Koran before the 9th century?

 

[Shia Islam]

Can you please give us sources that prove the existence of Muhammed & Koran before the 9th century?

They did not exist. It's all a Fairy tale that has been made up.

 

[fallingblood]

Do a little research on the Quran. You will quickly see that there are fragment from at least the 8th century, and possibly even the 7th century (late). I think that in itself makes the quote you had questionable as the research simply wasn't there.

 

[Ordeet]

Copying Christianity questions about Jesus and pasting them as questions about Muhammad does not work.

Why can't we ask the same questions about Islam than we do about Christianity? If, say I do not believe that Jesus existed, why should I be forced to believe that Muhammad existed? Just because someone says he did?

Personally I haven't researched the entire issue of Muhammad existing or not. I did not think of it, but at this point I believe he existed but I don't think he was the legendary person that Muslims make him out to be. In a similar way we know that Kim Jong Il exists, but we don't necessarily have to believe what the North Korean government says about how he was born and all the great things he's accomplished. And there are a lot of legends told about historical figures, like the one about George Washington chopping down his father's cherry tree or throwing a silver dollar across the Potomac. So it is entirely plausible to say that there was a Muhammad but that he's not all that he's made out to be.

Personally I view both Muhammad and Jesus as secular figures, not prophets or messiahs or the Son of God. Muhammad I see as mainly a military man and a politician who created Islam and spread it in order to unite the Arabs. Jesus to me was just one of many people of his day who were radical new thinkers and taught their interpretations of religion to the masses, thus creating Christianity in the process.

 

[Oberon]

It seems that there is considerably doubt on the existance of Muhammed amongst some academics

No, there isn't. Muhammed is widely believed to be historical by academics.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Muhammad is more historical then Jesus...

 

[Oberon]

Muhammad is more historical then Jesus...

That's rather difficult to say. First, how could anyone be "more historical" than anyone else? I suppose you mean there is more historical evidence for Muhammed than for Jesus. That is rather questionable.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Yes, what I mean to say is there is more historical evidence for Muhammad. Given the fact that Muhammad's followers from both Shi'ite and Sunni sides wrote down stories about him narrated from well known Arab historians. Some of the historians themselves even wrote some of these narrations. Given the fact that they come from differing Shia and Sunni sources, they still agree a lot with one another about the details of his life, more often then not. Like both Shia and Sunni narrations show Muhammad as an ascetic, to use an example, and say he slept on a wooden mat and lived on mostly dates.

 

[Beneck]

Interesting thoughts. However, why would Mohammaed not have excisted, having had, and still having, such a great influence on millions of people?

 

[Beneck]

Why would he not have excisted? Do we have such "enormous" proof that Homer excisted, or Nostradamus and so on?

 

[Shia Islam]

Interesting thoughts. However, why would Mohammaed not have excisted, having had, and still having, such a great influence on millions of people?

Unbiased people ...See thing as they are
Frubals

 

[Oberon]

Yes, what I mean to say is there is more historical evidence for Muhammad. Given the fact that Muhammad's followers from both Shi'ite and Sunni sides wrote down stories about him narrated from well known Arab historians. Some of the historians themselves even wrote some of these narrations. Given the fact that they come from differing Shia and Sunni sources, they still agree a lot with one another about the details of his life, more often then not. Like both Shia and Sunni narrations show Muhammad as an ascetic, to use an example, and say he slept on a wooden mat and lived on mostly dates.

The problem is the large number of spurious ahadith and stories. For example, the earliest sira of the prophet is a portion of Ibn Shaq's, but this is rather late. The collection of the ahadith was ongoing and rather late as well. So is there historical evidence for Muhammed? Yes, absolutely, and plenty of it. But is there more than there is for Jesus, who had four "lives" and numerious other documents either about him or referencing him within a few generations of his death? That's something else altogether. And it really doesn't matter. Suffice to say, for the vast majority of scholars with any expertise in a related field, both Jesus and Muhammed were historical figures.

 

[Smoke]

Can you please give us sources that prove the existence of Muhammed & Koran before the 9th century?

John bar Pekaye wrote about Muhammad (but not the Qur'an) during the 7th century.

Dated Texts Mentioning Prophet Muhammad From 1-100 AH / 622-719 CE

Copying Christianity questions about Jesus and pasting them as questions about Muhammad does not work.

There is a parallel, though. If you want to deny the existence of Jesus, you have to explain Paul and James. If you want to deny the existence of Muhammad, you have to explain Abu Bakr and Umar.

 

[Shia Islam]

John bar Pekaye wrote about Muhammad (but not the Qur'an) during the 7th century.

Dated Texts Mentioning Prophet Muhammad From 1-100 AH / 622-719 CE


There is a parallel, though. If you want to deny the existence of Jesus, you have to explain Paul and James. If you want to deny the existence of Muhammad, you have to explain Abu Bakr and Umar.

What I meant is that, some people after reading that some authors has denied the existence of Jesus, they thought that they may also deny the existence of Muhammed.

I just found only non-educated people will try to argue that Muhammed did not exist, and hence did not found it worth even debating...

 

[fatima_bintu_islam]

One day everyone decided to become Muslim, and then Islam was there..

 

[Ordeet]

John bar Pekaye wrote about Muhammad (but not the Qur'an) during the 7th century.

Dated Texts Mentioning Prophet Muhammad From 1-100 AH / 622-719 CE

I'm wary of information from pro-Islamic sites, though. For example one of the texts uses the phrase " in Palestine twelve miles east of Gaza." However Gaza wasn't called Gaza until the 20th century.

Also, one of the passages says: "Now because the command was from on high, at a single order they all came together in unity of religion." It sounds like a very pro-Islamic sentiment from a supposedly Christian source. And if you search the phrase in Google, you get only one result, in Google books, ""A history of the later Roman Empire, AD 284-641" by Stephen Mitchell. Which is not the source that the website claims it's from.

 

[fallingblood]

I'm wary of information from pro-Islamic sites, though. For example one of the texts uses the phrase " in Palestine twelve miles east of Gaza." However Gaza wasn't called Gaza until the 20th century.

Also, one of the passages says: "Now because the command was from on high, at a single order they all came together in unity of religion." It sounds like a very pro-Islamic sentiment from a supposedly Christian source. And if you search the phrase in Google, you get only one result, in Google books, ""A history of the later Roman Empire, AD 284-641" by Stephen Mitchell. Which is not the source that the website claims it's from.

I'm with you in the idea that I'm wary of information from pro-Islamic sites. Looking at that particular site, it is clear that it is very pro-Islamic. However, looking at some of the sources, I have to say that it should be clear that there are early mentions of Muhammad.