Did Pontius Pilate exist?

[outhouse]

Which Christianity? Gnosticism?

Im not that sharp on this topic but here goes.

Gnosticism had roots before Christianity, it also evolved and compiled into different sects within early Christianity.

Its better to look at each individually, more so then comparing.

Gnosticism was for the most part short lived. The rise of Christianity was for the mnost part always on a scale upwards in numbers, with certain areas growing faster then others.

Also take into to note Christianity was very wide and diverse for the first few hundred years, as Judaism was wide and diverse before the temple fell.

 

[Riverwolf]

That makes it more likely that Jesus did exist, don't you think?
Why would people be worshipping a fictional mythos character that soon after the crucifixion"?

All it would take is a small number of charismatic preachers.

 

[Desert Snake]

All it would take is a small number of charismatic preachers.

Is this your theory or just a possibility.

 

[Riverwolf]

Is this your theory or just a possibility.

A possibility.

I, personally, think it likely that there was at least one, maybe many, figures who inspired the character of Jesus, but I don't really believe the Gospels are historical documents.

I basically regard Jesus the same way I do King Arthur.

 

[Desert Snake]

Sounds like you don't believe in the historical Jesus.

 

[Riverwolf]

Sounds like you don't believe in the historical Jesus.

I don't believe the gospels accurately recount the life of a man who lived, taught, and died as they tell, if that's what you mean.

 

[Desert Snake]

I don't believe the gospels accurately recount the life of a man who lived, taught, and died as they tell, if that's what you mean.

No, I meant if Jesus actually existed, I'm not talking about religion or Biblical accuracy beyond that.

 

[steeltoes]

Sounds like you don't believe in the historical Jesus.

What we know of Pilate is very little, and we can't say we know anything about Jesus other than what we read of in a story book setting. Not very convinced that we can say anything definitive of Jesus, which isn't to say he didn't necessarily exist. Pilate didn't exist in the biblical sense if we know anything about ancient Roman court procedures and what Philo has to say about Pilate.

 

[Riverwolf]

No, I meant if Jesus actually existed, I'm not talking about religion or Biblical accuracy beyond that.

Maybe a figure who inspired the biblical character did, or perhaps many figures culminated into one.

My opinion is that I don't know.

 

[F0uad]

If there are many reports and stories regarding One Guy then we can assume and maybe even conclude that he did exist. I am not saying that the Gospels are accurate biographies or something but some of those manuscripts do date back very early or the letters of Paul.

To assume that people invented a guy is ridiculous to assume they invented the story around him is more possible. As for Pilate i am not sure what kind of signification he has to even debate hes existence in the first place. Doubting ones existence is quite easy proving one is much harder therefore you cannot be to critical about the material you posses.

 

[outhouse]

What we know of Pilate is very little, and we can't say we know anything about Jesus other than what we read of in a story book setting. Not very convinced that we can say anything definitive of Jesus, which isn't to say he didn't necessarily exist. Pilate didn't exist in the biblical sense if we know anything about ancient Roman court procedures and what Philo has to say about Pilate.

We know quite a bit about Pilate.

We also know mythology was written about him, and why that originated. History doesnt just blindly attribute historicity.

 

[outhouse]

I don't believe the gospels accurately recount the life of a man who lived, taught, and died as they tell, if that's what you mean.

I agree.

Even some of the best historians label these gospels as allegory, and not literal accounts.

We have another culture describing a man they never knew, and knew very little about.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What we know of Pilate is very little, and we can't say we know anything about Jesus other than what we read of in a story book setting. Not very convinced that we can say anything definitive of Jesus, which isn't to say he didn't necessarily exist. Pilate didn't exist in the biblical sense if we know anything about ancient Roman court procedures and what Philo has to say about Pilate.

Again, could you please tell us the point of this thread?

 

[steeltoes]

I agree.

Even some of the best historians label these gospels as allegory, and not literal accounts.

We have another culture describing a man they never knew, and knew very little about.

Was this Jesus the founder of Christianity, or was the story put together giving the impression that this was the founder? After all, allegory and not literal accounts.

No one that wrote about Jesus ever met the guy.

 

[steeltoes]

Again, could you please tell us the point of this thread?

It's self explanatory. If scholars have evidence of Jesus they could provide some, just as they have for Pilate. Being told it's complicated and much has to be known about everything else in the first century in order to crack the riddle of his existence doesn't help much. It sounds like special pleading.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

This has been discussed ad nauseam.

Do we have proof of historicity? No. Congratulations.

Do we have evidence compelling an overwhelming majority of scholars to embrace historicity as inference to best explanation. Absolutely. Sorry.

 

[outhouse]

Was this Jesus the founder of Christianity, or was the story put together giving the impression that this was the founder? After all, allegory and not literal accounts.

No one that wrote about Jesus ever met the guy.

No he did not found Christianity.

He started a Jewish movement, that was adopted by another Hellenistic movement.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

By the time Constantine converted to Christianity it had spread throughout the known world.
As such it was a useful binding force for Rome.
For a religion to grow and spread with out the binding force of the reality of its central character would be strange. Even If no one else was, Rome would have been keen to establish Christs credentials. There seems to have been argument about everything except his existence.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Even If no one else was, Rome would have been keen to establish Christs credentials.

I see no evidence of that nor reason for it.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I see no evidence of that nor reason for it.

Constantine invested both money and time and reputation in "Regularising" the new church.
I hardly think he would have done that if he had thought the other displaced religions could disprove Jesus existence. Romans were far from stupid.

I give him at least as much credit for watching his back as I do modern politicians.
( He knew what happened to other emperors when they got things wrong)