Did Sanders Help Trump Win the Presidency?

[esmith]

If I have the right information for the Democrats in their primary it required 2382 delegate votes to win the nomination.
From what I understand, not counting super delegates Hillary had 2205 and Bernie had 1846. Neither candidate had the necessary delegates to win the nomination which would have lead to an open convention. So, who know what would have happened without the super delegates.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

If I have the right information for the Democrats in their primary it required 2382 delegate votes to win the nomination.
From what I understand, not counting super delegates Hillary had 2205 and Bernie had 1846. Neither candidate had the necessary delegates to win the nomination which would have lead to an open convention. So, who know what would have happened without the super delegates.

Super delegates were deliberately installed to prevent an outsider from upsetting the party-- as happened in the past, with disastrous results.

Sadly, the super delegates failed to prevent this disaster-- Sanders, NOT a democrat-- should never have been permitted to run in the first place on the Dem ticket.

Letting him get undeserved support from a party he hates? Was a disaster, as his ugly words helped to sink Clinton.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I read and understood your claims. The problem is that the issue of superdelegates is irrelevant to the fact that Clinton got nearly 4 million more votes in the primaries than Sanders. The will of the people was that Clinton would be the Democratic nominee.

Right, so you didn't understand. I already got that.

 

[Augustus]

The argument of the effect of Sanders' campaign on the election really has nothing to do with semantics over the word "split".

And you still haven't offered a good reason why Sanders should be blamed simply because Hillary couldn't get enough people to vote for her as she was widely disliked and ran an uninspiring, stultifying, dull and complacent campaign.

Why not call the thread 'did Clinton help trump win the presidency?'

You have well decribed a deluded electorate here.

Arrogant, deluded nonsense.

Is it really that hard for you to see why many people might not be overbrimming with enthusiasm for the Washington elites, and why Hillary was seen as being emblematic of what is wrong with modern politics?

It's really rather disturbing to me to see this continued anger about Sanders losing.

Haven't you made about 20 threads blaming everything and everyone except Hillary for her defeat?

'Unfair' electoral college, Bernie, Comey, 'stupid' voters...

 

[Nous]

And you still haven't offered a good reason why Sanders should be blamed simply because Hillary couldn't get enough people to vote for her as she was widely disliked and ran an uninspiring, stultifying, dull and complacent campaign.

Let's not forget that Clinton got more votes than Trump. She also got more votes than Sanders in the primaries.

In any case, again, the argument is that Sanders' message fired up a base where "anyone but the establishment" is good, pointed to Clinton as the establishment, and didn't do a lot to change that message after he lost the nomination. But, even then, there is little personal blame for Sanders. As I've noted numerous times here, everyone thought she would win.

Hillary was seen as being emblematic of what is wrong with modern politics

How deluded. How is a career politician like Sanders any less of "what is wrong with modern politics"? What would Sanders have accomplished that Clinton was against?

Haven't you made about 20 threads blaming everything and everyone except Hillary for her defeat?

What the hell are you talking about?

 

[Nous]

If I have the right information for the Democrats in their primary it required 2382 delegate votes to win the nomination.
From what I understand, not counting super delegates Hillary had 2205 and Bernie had 1846. Neither candidate had the necessary delegates to win the nomination which would have lead to an open convention. So, who know what would have happened without the super delegates.

Clinton still got nearly 4 million more votes than Sanders in the primaries, and 3 million(?) more than Trump in the general election.

 

[esmith]

Clinton still got nearly 4 million more votes than Sanders in the primaries, and 3 million(?) more than Trump in the general election.

You forget that votes don't count in primaries, delegates do. Also you seem to have a problem understanding that in the general total votes don't count, electoral votes count. Get over it.

 

[metis]

Trump certainly can't get over losing the popular vote. Trump can't get over that Obama's inauguration had substantially more people attending. Trump can't get over the fact that the crookedness of him and his team are severely undermining him as a "pathological liar" (Graham's and Jindal's reference to him) and his associate liars now have their junk caught in the investigative wringer. And Trump can't get over what the media is reporting, so he tunes in the Fox Propaganda Channel that serves as his pacifier.

So maybe "Get over it!" should be more said to him-- except that he's got no ability to "Get over it!".

With all the lies and "I forgot...", how can anyone be proud in any way to what we're seeing happen just about every day of the week. It's the biggest and scariest soap opera going, and future generations may have a hard time realizing that this really is non-fiction.

And we're only six months in...

 

[tytlyf]

You forget that votes don't count in primaries, delegates do. Also you seem to have a problem understanding that in the general total votes don't count, electoral votes count. Get over it.

And you believe that's a fair system.

 

[esmith]

Seems that there are numerous people that can't get over Trump winning and Hillary losing. However, that is the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

 

[esmith]

And you believe that's a fair system.

Which one do you mean the primaries or the general or both. Got to be specific if you expect an answer.

 

[metis]

Anyone who is concerned about this country should have regrets about the results of the election as we've seen over the last six months.

 

[esmith]

Anyone who is concerned about this country should have regrets about the results of the election as we've seen over the last six months.

Depends on ones priorities
I have no problem with the direction the country is going.
Therefore I am not concerned

 

[tytlyf]

Seems that there are numerous people that can't get over Trump winning and Hillary losing. However, that is the way the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Trump winning = American losing

Things are a lot uglier now at home and in the world with him in the CEO position. Some of us saw this coming a long time ago. We warned everyone.

Maybe people didn't know who Trump was prior to the election? Has to be it. Are they in the woods?

 

[metis]

Depends on ones priorities
I have no problem with the direction the country is going.
Therefore I am not concerned

So, you're not at all concerned that a foreign nation, and one that has repeatedly shown hostility to democracies in the west that includes us, is "no problem"? Did you not wear a military uniform and pledged to protect the security of the United States of America? Assuming so, how in the world can you reconcile that honorable defense of our country with your having "no problem" with the Russian efforts, obviously supported by some major figures in Trump's staff, to undermine our democracy? Seems like you adore Trump much more than your own country.

BTW, Sheppard and Krauthammer on Fox finely grew a pair and denounced all the lies and changes of testimony from Trump's administration, especially Donald Jr., that you've concluded presents "no problem". Seems that even the conservative "rats" are deserting your sinking "ship".

 

[Stevicus]

So, you're not at all concerned that a foreign nation, and one that has repeatedly shown hostility to democracies in the west that includes us, is "no problem"?

I would consider that to be a concern, but it's something we should have been on guard against a long time ago. The politicians, the major parties, and much of the electorate have tacitly accepted the methods and practices of political campaigns - and how they've become a game of money and manipulation. We opened up the game to foreign players decades ago, and now we're complaining about being hoisted by our own petard?

The worst possible thing we can do is try to hold ourselves blameless and say "it was all the dirty Russkies' fault!"

My inner "conspiracy theorist" is telling me that there are certain people who are hellbent on wanting to get us in a war with Russia. That's what this election was about, and Trump's victory fouled up the plans of certain powerful warmongering factions. But if the powers that be decide that we're going to have a war with Russia, then I guess it shall be so. Let's just hope we have better luck in Stalingrad than the last bunch who tried.

 

[metis]

I would consider that to be a concern, but it's something we should have been on guard against a long time ago. The politicians, the major parties, and much of the electorate have tacitly accepted the methods and practices of political campaigns - and how they've become a game of money and manipulation.

But this is the first time we've actually encouraged a hostile foreign power to actively get involved in our electioneering process.

We opened up the game to foreign players decades ago, and now we're complaining about being hoisted by our own petard?

I hear ya.

The worst possible thing we can do is try to hold ourselves blameless and say "it was all the dirty Russkies' fault!"

I double-hear ya.

My inner "conspiracy theorist" is telling me that there are certain people who are hellbent on wanting to get us in a war with Russia.

That I don't think at all was likely because the Clinton camp clearly had no reason to want war since she had a well-established record as SoS, and then Trump & Co. had and still have their bromance with Putin & Co. No can buy.

 

[columbus]

My inner "conspiracy theorist" is telling me that there are certain people who are hellbent on wanting to get us in a war with Russia. That's what this election was about, and Trump's victory fouled up the plans of certain powerful warmongering factions.

I very definitely see conflict shaping up between the USA and Russia. But it isn't really the USA that wants it. It's Russian people like Putin.
They are ambitious and planning to knock the USA off the top of the "sole remaining Superpower" hill. I see this pretty clearly in the events of the last many years in the Middle East. Putin is backing and forming alliances with regional powers, like Iran and Syria, capable of breaking the USA's grip on the Gulf oil region.

Trump can help him a great deal, so Putin did his level best to get Trump elected. Trump can help prevent a military conflict simply by making the USA incapable of defending it's global interests. He's doing that by isolating the USA from our allies, starting trade wars, and dividing the USA with irrational tweets and damaging policies.

Getting Trump elected was a total win for Putin. By the time Trump's supporters realize that they were duped their opinions won't matter any more.
Tom

 

[esmith]

So, you're not at all concerned that a foreign nation, and one that has repeatedly shown hostility to democracies in the west that includes us, is "no problem"? Did you not wear a military uniform and pledged to protect the security of the United States of America? Assuming so, how in the world can you reconcile that honorable defense of our country with your having "no problem" with the Russian efforts, obviously supported by some major figures in Trump's staff, to undermine our democracy? Seems like you adore Trump much more than your own country.

BTW, Sheppard and Krauthammer on Fox finely grew a pair and denounced all the lies and changes of testimony from Trump's administration, especially Donald Jr., that you've concluded presents "no problem". Seems that even the conservative "rats" are deserting your sinking "ship".

Until it is prove that the US was harmed or will be harmed by anything that the present administration has done will do I will hold my judgment.
Yeah, I wore a military uniform and I swore I would

support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

So first you would have to establish that there is a threat to the Constitution and until then back off. I do not appreciate your accusations
.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

He definitely played his part. I regret voting for him in the primaries.

Why the GOP and the Bernie Left Don’t Care About “the Russia Story”