Did science create the universe?

[Arkwort]

What I mean is........

Perhaps one day scientists will become so knowledgable that they will be able to manipulate everything in the universe (energy, matter, space, time, all the forces, everything). And so perhaps science will become so powerful that the scientists will end up creating the very universe they find themselves within!

Yes....this universe may have been created by future scientists.

So if the future scientists created the universe, who created the scientists?
Well perhaps we're looking at the universe all wrong. Instead of the Big Bang being the beginning, perhaps evolution was the beginning. Evolution, being started by a self-replicating molecule being formed, and continuing by mutations of that first molecule, produced intelligence which may be the most powerful force in the universe because it can work things out and its creative, perhaps creative enough to create the universe.

I know this idea needs work, but maybe I'm on to something!

Arkwort

 

[Willamena]

That's called the Grandfather Paradox (only with scientists as the Grandpa).
Grandfather paradox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Riverwolf]

Speculation without evidence isn't really on to anything. It's just making up wild possibilities.

I'm afraid you'll have to provide some sort of evidence that this may be a possibility if you want anyone to take this speculation seriously.

You need to be aware of the difference between science, and what is called pseudo-science.

 

[Willamena]

Speculation without evidence isn't really on to anything. It's just making up wild possibilities.

I'm afraid you'll have to provide some sort of evidence that this may be a possibility if you want anyone to take this speculation seriously.

Grumpy-puss.

You need to be aware of the difference between science, and what is called pseudo-science.

Or science and philosophy.

 

[Dunemeister]

Speculation without evidence isn't really on to anything. It's just making up wild possibilities.

I'm afraid you'll have to provide some sort of evidence that this may be a possibility if you want anyone to take this speculation seriously.

You need to be aware of the difference between science, and what is called pseudo-science.

The OP isn't making a scientific claim, so implying it doesn't account for these differences is unfair.

 

[Arkwort]

Speculation without evidence isn't really on to anything. It's just making up wild possibilities.

Wild possibilities.
I wouldn't call it a wild possibility.
I'm trying to give a reason of why there is something instead of nothing....perhaps future scientists worked out how to create something from nothing!
If the scientists didn't do it perhaps a God did it.
If neither the scientists nor God did it perhaps it was a natural phenomena!
It's not a wild possibility, it's one of three possibilities.
(edit:there's probably more possibilities I'm not considering)

Arkwort :sleep:

 

[tumbleweed41]

Or...
Did the universe create science?
The formation of our universe, and the Laws that govern it, created a study of those Laws.
Thus scientific inquiry.

 

[TechTed]

My whole theory is based on this concept, so I would answer YES!

We have the "cycle of life" in nature, why wouldn't there also be a much more grand "cycle of life" on a universal scale? A cycle where super-intelligent beings evolve to create more universes that evolve other super-intelligent beings that create more universes etc etc?

One of the questions we are seeking to understand is, are we in the "first" universe or just one of an infinite number of them?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Perhaps one day scientists will become so knowledgable that they will be able to manipulate everything in the universe ...

Actually, given Heisenberg and Gödel science is becoming mature enough and knowledgeable enough to presume otherwise.

 

[Arkwort]

Actually, given Heisenberg and Gödel science is becoming mature enough and knowledgeable enough to presume otherwise.

Are you saying that in the 21 st century, scientists have almost reached the peak of their knowledge? And there's 5 Billion years on Earth left for science to overcome the limitations of the Universe. Can Heisenberg and Godel be so bold and confident?

Arkwort :sleep:

 

[fantome profane]

Are you saying that in the 21 st century, scientists have almost reached the peak of their knowledge? And there's 5 Billion years on Earth left for science to overcome the limitations of the Universe. Can Heisenberg and Godel be so bold and confident?

Arkwort :sleep:

Jay is saying nothing of the kind. He is referring to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and Godel's incompleteness theorem. The upshot here is that perhaps the knowledge that is required for what you suggest is not possible. It is not just a matter of advancing our understanding, but perhaps what we are learning is that the very laws of physics themselves make this kind of complete knowledge impossible.

 

[Willamena]

Are you saying that in the 21 st century, scientists have almost reached the peak of their knowledge?

Just the opposite. They've beginning to understand the ways in which they can never know it all, and that learning has no end.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Are you saying that in the 21 st century, scientists have almost reached the peak of their knowledge?

At issue is not the extent to which 21st century science understands the cosmos but, rather, the extent to which you understand 21st century science.

 

[Dunemeister]

Are you saying that in the 21 st century, scientists have almost reached the peak of their knowledge? And there's 5 Billion years on Earth left for science to overcome the limitations of the Universe. Can Heisenberg and Godel be so bold and confident?

Arkwort :sleep:

Probably what they've discovered is that the closer you look at the universe the more mystery is to be found there. It's entirely impossible for us to know enough about the fundamental nature of reality to be able to manipulate it to the point envisioned in the OP.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What I mean is........

And what I mean is ...

... not all speculation is created equal.

 

[Riverwolf]

Grumpy-puss.

What! I'm trying to be nicer than Jay can be sometimes!

Or science and philosophy.

Indeed.

 

[Riverwolf]

Wild possibilities.
I wouldn't call it a wild possibility.
I'm trying to give a reason of why there is something instead of nothing....perhaps future scientists worked out how to create something from nothing!
If the scientists didn't do it perhaps a God did it.
If neither the scientists nor God did it perhaps it was a natural phenomena!
It's not a wild possibility, it's one of three possibilities.
(edit:there's probably more possibilities I'm not considering)

Arkwort :sleep:

A wild possibility is one that is not supported by evidence, such as the one you're putting forth. Sorry.

 

[Riverwolf]

The OP isn't making a scientific claim, so implying it doesn't account for these differences is unfair.

The OP seems to be an attempt to be a scientific claim.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

A wild possibility is one that is not supported by evidence...

Like god.

 

[logician]

What I mean is........

Perhaps one day scientists will become so knowledgable that they will be able to manipulate everything in the universe (energy, matter, space, time, all the forces, everything). And so perhaps science will become so powerful that the scientists will end up creating the very universe they find themselves within!

Yes....this universe may have been created by future scientists.

So if the future scientists created the universe, who created the scientists?
Well perhaps we're looking at the universe all wrong. Instead of the Big Bang being the beginning, perhaps evolution was the beginning. Evolution, being started by a self-replicating molecule being formed, and continuing by mutations of that first molecule, produced intelligence which may be the most powerful force in the universe because it can work things out and its creative, perhaps creative enough to create the universe.

I know this idea needs work, but maybe I'm on to something!

Arkwort

This is a little like the "gods vs super aliens" thread I created. Perhaps some species advance to such a point that they are indistinguishable from our god concepts.