Did the Christian God make Himself fallible?

[Nikodemus]

I want to be clear that I'm talking about the Christian God that is believed to be the Holy Trinity and that everything I'm about to say is about that particular religious belief.

Okay, so God sent down His one and only son to earth to save us from ourselves. This son endures quite a bit of crap during his stay on earth. He never actually sins, but he does feel temptation, anger, and since he was man, I have to believe that in his human form, he lusted after women.

Again, he never sins, but he does beg that the cup be taken from his lips. He grows tired and afraid. All normal human reactions to a horrid situation.

God, however, is perfect. God is infallible. Jesus is not. His very existence as a human being negates infallibility.

So my question is: If God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are indeed one and the same, did God bring fallibility into His being with the creation of Jesus?

 

[Jeremy Mason]

He never actually sins, but he does feel temptation, anger, and since he was man, I have to believe that in his human form, he lusted after women.

I don't believe so and it's not written in Scripture.

God, however, is perfect. God is infallible. Jesus is not. His very existence as a human being negates infallibility.

Again, this is your POV and not Biblical.

So my question is: If God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are indeed one and the same, did God bring fallibility into His being with the creation of Jesus?

No.

 

[Mister Emu]

I agree with Jeremy...

 

[Dunemeister]

Okay, so God sent down His one and only son to earth to save us from ourselves.

Not exactly. He came to repair the damage done by Adam's sin, namely our alienation from God and each other. Our individual sins are a product of those alienations.

This son endures quite a bit of crap during his stay on earth. He never actually sins, but he does feel temptation, anger, and since he was man, I have to believe that in his human form, he lusted after women.

He was certainly attracted to women but he didn't "lust after" them. If he had, that would contradict the claim that he didn't sin.

Again, he never sins, but he does beg that the cup be taken from his lips. He grows tired and afraid. All normal human reactions to a horrid situation.

God, however, is perfect. God is infallible. Jesus is not. His very existence as a human being negates infallibility.

Well, that depends on what you mean by "perfect" and "infallible". Jesus didn't know algebra, so if you asked him to solve a quadratic equation, he would not have known where to start. So in that sense, he wasn't infallible, but it's hard to imagine why that sort of fallibility is relevant or important. If by "infallible" you mean that Jesus didn't sin, then yes, he's infallible.

When scripture describes God as "perfect" it generally means "impartial." God loves with a perfect love, which means that he doesn't play favorites. He brings rain and shine on the just and the unjust. If that's what you mean by perfect, certainly Jesus was. And it's the sort of perfection we are called upon to imitate. We are to be "perfect, just as God is perfect," which means that we are to love indiscriminately just as God does.

So my question is: If God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are indeed one and the same, did God bring fallibility into His being with the creation of Jesus?

Yes and no, depending on how you cash out "fallibility."

 

[tomspug]

If Jesus never sinned, how could that be considered a breach of "infallibility"?

 

[Dunemeister]

If Jesus never sinned, how could that be considered a breach of "infallibility"?

What?

 

[Nikodemus]

I don't believe so and it's not written in Scripture.

Which part? The last part or all of it? Because the temptation and anger are in Christian scripture. The lust, I'll admit, is simply conjecture on my part. One of those things that seem to make a bit of sense. If Jesus was a human man, with all of our failings, but able to overcome all of them, then logically he felt lust. He just didn't act on it. But like I said, that is all me.

Again, this is your POV and not Biblical.

Umm...No it's not. God is perfect according to Christian scripture. Humans aren't. Jesus wasn't perfect on earth. Better than anyone I've ever met, certainly, but not perfect. Ever read how he spoke to his mother before he turned the water into wine? That was rude, at best. Small yes, and I'm not trying to say anything else, but it's not perfect.

No.

Okie doke.

 

[Nikodemus]

Not exactly. He came to repair the damage done by Adam's sin, namely our alienation from God and each other. Our individual sins are a product of those alienations.

I'm not getting the difference between this and what I said. Help?

He was certainly attracted to women but he didn't "lust after" them. If he had, that would contradict the claim that he didn't sin.

Perhaps I used too strong of an expression. What I meant was that Jesus felt normal male reactions to women. All conjecture on my part, but it just seems to make sense.

Well, that depends on what you mean by "perfect" and "infallible". Jesus didn't know algebra, so if you asked him to solve a quadratic equation, he would not have known where to start. So in that sense, he wasn't infallible, but it's hard to imagine why that sort of fallibility is relevant or important. If by "infallible" you mean that Jesus didn't sin, then yes, he's infallible.

When scripture describes God as "perfect" it generally means "impartial." God loves with a perfect love, which means that he doesn't play favorites. He brings rain and shine on the just and the unjust. If that's what you mean by perfect, certainly Jesus was. And it's the sort of perfection we are called upon to imitate. We are to be "perfect, just as God is perfect," which means that we are to love indiscriminately just as God does.

I wasn't aware of that. That perfect means impartial. I was under the impression that it meant infallible. And no I don't think algebra is important to the lessons Jesus was here to teach, but I don't think being without sin is the only definition for being perfect. One can be without sin and not be perfect. Take the example above, about how he spoke to his mother. Not exactly a sin, but it's certainly rude and impatient.

Yes and no, depending on how you cash out "fallibility."

Okay, I can see your point.

 

[Nikodemus]

If Jesus never sinned, how could that be considered a breach of "infallibility"?

See the above posts about how he spoke to his mother. Also that fig tree. It didn't have ripe fruit when he wanted it so he cursed it? Seems rather petulant to me.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Which part? The last part or all of it? Because the temptation and anger are in Christian scripture. The lust, I'll admit, is simply conjecture on my part. One of those things that seem to make a bit of sense. If Jesus was a human man, with all of our failings, but able to overcome all of them, then logically he felt lust. He just didn't act on it. But like I said, that is all me.



Umm...No it's not. God is perfect according to Christian scripture. Humans aren't. Jesus wasn't perfect on earth. Better than anyone I've ever met, certainly, but not perfect. Ever read how he spoke to his mother before he turned the water into wine? That was rude, at best. Small yes, and I'm not trying to say anything else, but it's not perfect.



Okay doke.

There was no hint of sin in Jesus, period!!!!!

 

[Nikodemus]

There was no hint of sin in Jesus, period!!!!!

As you like.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

As you like.

As it's written. :yes:

 

[lunamoth]

I don't think the Christian God made Himself fallible, but I think the act of creation (not to mention the Incarnation) required a material world where God limits Godself to give us space for our own free will and independent being.

 

[Nikodemus]

As it's written. :yes:

Matthew 21:18-19
Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.

Okay it's not a sin to curse a tree as far as I know, but are these the actions of a perfect human being? That's all I'm saying. That he wasn't perfect. If you consider this perfect, I'd like to know how and why.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Matthew 21:18-19
Early in the morning, as he was on his way back to the city, he was hungry. Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered.

Okay it's not a sin to curse a tree as far as I know, but are these the actions of a perfect human being? That's all I'm saying. That he wasn't perfect. If you consider this perfect, I'd like to know how and why.

This was not aggression toward the tree. It was an example of the Christian relationship to God. If Christians don't produce the fruits of love, they too will be cut off.

 

[Nikodemus]

This was not aggression toward the tree. It was an example of the Christian relationship to God. If Christians don't produce the fruits of love, they too will be cut off.

Still kinda hard on the tree.

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Still kinda hard on the tree.

Get over it.

 

[Nikodemus]

Get over it.

Right-O!