Did this guy mak some valid points?

[BSM1]

You and I have already established that since the mother is carrying the child it is her decision, so whatever you and I say amounts to nothing. Of course in the case of rape the father doesn't get to decide but forget about the mother and father and consider the child.

No, let's talk about your statement as to how the father should have a say. How is this different from any sperm donor telling another person what they can or cannot so with their own bodies? If the father wants a child that badly there is always adoption (where did I hear that before?). My point is, that except for some misplaced righteous indignation, there is really no valid argument against abortion.

 

[Earthling]

No, let's talk about your statement as to how the father should have a say. How is this different from any sperm donor telling another person what they can or cannot so with their own bodies? If the father wants a child that badly there is always adoption (where did I hear that before?). My point is, that except for some misplaced righteous indignation, there is really no valid argument against abortion.

What?! About the child? The father should have a say in it, except for the case of rape, and sperm donation, but it's always the ultimate responsibility of the mother, who carries the child. Abstinence, birth control and eventually adoption are preferable to taking an instrument, inserting it into the mother and killing the child. The child has no say in it so who is speaking on it's behalf?

Most of the cases of abortion are due to the mother's irresponsible sexual practices. My beliefs dictate to me that abstinence before marriage, birth control after marriage and adoption in the case of rape would be the responsible thing to do. No matter what everyone else is doing. Someone getting a sperm donation isn't likely to abort. The decision is up to the mother, but the child would likely be resurrected and the mother blood guilty.

My beliefs, however, have little effect so making this into a social issue which a great deal of people have an emotional fixation with is pointless.

 

[BSM1]

What?! About the child? The father should have a say in it, except for the case of rape, and sperm donation, but it's always the ultimate responsibility of the mother, who carries the child. Abstinence, birth control and eventually adoption are preferable to taking an instrument, inserting it into the mother and killing the child. The child has no say in it so who is speaking on it's behalf?

Most of the cases of abortion are due to the mother's irresponsible sexual practices. My beliefs dictate to me that abstinence before marriage, birth control after marriage and adoption in the case of rape would be the responsible thing to do. No matter what everyone else is doing. Someone getting a sperm donation isn't likely to abort. The decision is up to the mother, but the child would likely be resurrected and the mother blood guilty.

My beliefs, however, have little effect so making this into a social issue which a great deal of people have an emotional fixation with is pointless.

Again, no matter what you personally feel, the fetus is not a child. And if the woman wishes to use abortion as her choice of birth control what possible difference can it make to you? How does that change your life in any degree?

 

[Earthling]

Again, no matter what you personally feel, the fetus is not a child. And if the woman wishes to use abortion as her choice of birth control what possible difference can it make to you? How does that change your life in any degree?

No matter what you personally feel, the fetus is a child. And if the woman wishes to use abortion as her choice of birth control what possible difference can it make to you? How does that change your life in any degree?

I can tell that this is a social issue you have an emotional fixation with. I've repeatedly said it was the mother's choice.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

father should have a say in it,

What does 'have a say' look like to you? My husband and I, for example are on the same page that if an accidental pregnancy occurred with us at the moment (which we try our best to prevent with double contraceptive use), I would likely get an abortion. If he changed his mind, I would listen to him and hear him out in the respect that I am interested in what my partner has to say and his take on the situation. But he and I both understand that ultimately it would be my choice to make.

Most of the cases of abortion are due to the mother's irresponsible sexual practices.

Why just the mother?

 

[Earthling]

What does 'have a say' look like to you? My husband and I, for example are on the same page that if an accidental pregnancy occurred with us at the moment (which we try our best to prevent with double contraceptive use), I would likely get an abortion. If he changed his mind, I would listen to him and hear him out in the respect that I am interested in what my partner has to say and his take on the situation. But he and I both understand that ultimately it would be my choice to make.

Which is exactly what I mean by 'have a say.'

Why just the mother?

Because we've determined that ultimately the decision is up to the mother. That comes with responsibility.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Which is exactly what I mean by 'have a say.'

So not a legal say so much as 'partners should communicate and listen to communication.' I agree with this.

Because we've determined that ultimately the decision is up to the mother. That comes with responsibility.

Ultimately the decision is the mother's, sure. But if a guy says 'let's have sex without any contraception and you can get an abortion later if you get pregnant' would you not say this is a failing of responsibility on his part?

 

[Earthling]

So not a legal say so much as 'partners should communicate and listen to communication.' I agree with this.

Well, yes, though if it were a legality then one would be obligated by law. That's nothing to do with my own personal opinion. I am apolitical. Following the example of Christ I'm no part of the world beyond what I am unfortunate enough to be a citizen of. I don't vote nor try in any way to influence legislation on the subject of abortion or any other.

Ultimately the decision is the mother's, sure. But if a guy says 'let's have sex without any contraception and you can get an abortion later if you get pregnant' would you not say this is a failing of responsibility on his part?

Most definitely the man is responsible for his actions, as with the woman his decisions come with responsibilities, but since the woman makes the final decision she has the brunt of the responsibility. If a guy says "let's have sex without any contraception and you can get an abortion later if you get pregnant" the woman would be advised to tell him to please go and **** himself.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Well, yes, though if it were a legality then one would be obligated by law. That's nothing to do with my own personal opinion. I am apolitical. Following the example of Christ I'm no part of the world beyond what I am unfortunate enough to be a citizen of. I don't vote nor try in any way to influence legislation on the subject of abortion or any other.



Most definitely the man is responsible for his actions, as with the woman his decisions come with responsibilities, but since the woman makes the final decision she has the brunt of the responsibility. If a guy says "let's have sex without any contraception and you can get an abortion later if you get pregnant" the woman would be advised to tell him to please go and **** himself.

I agree, though I think it would be in the best interest of everyone if weather contraceptives are being used is not the sole responsibility of the woman. Eg, a guy should also say 'go **** yourself' if a girl wants to have sex without any contraceptives and get an abortion later. Everyone who wants to be considered responsible should take actions to prevent unwanted disease and pregnancies in their own behavior.

 

[BSM1]

Most definitely the man is responsible for his actions, as with the woman his decisions come with responsibilities, but since the woman makes the final decision she has the brunt of the responsibility. If a guy says "let's have sex without any contraception and you can get an abortion later if you get pregnant" the woman would be advised to tell him to please go and **** himself.

Agreed. Then if the guy gets pregnant it's his responsibility. Seriously, this one reason I am pro-choice. Sometimes young women (and men) make bad decisions. I don't believe in punishing a young woman for making a bad decision.

 

[Earthling]

Agreed. Then if the guy gets pregnant it's his responsibility. Seriously, this one reason I am pro-choice. Sometimes young women (and men) make bad decisions. I don't believe in punishing a young woman for making a bad decision.

And this one reason I am against abortion. The child, who hasn't done anything wrong, pays for their bad behavior.

 

[Earthling]

I agree, though I think it would be in the best interest of everyone if weather contraceptives are being used is not the sole responsibility of the woman. Eg, a guy should also say 'go **** yourself' if a girl wants to have sex without any contraceptives and get an abortion later. Everyone who wants to be considered responsible should take actions to prevent unwanted disease and pregnancies in their own behavior.

Excellent point. I agree completely.

 

[BSM1]

And this one reason I am against abortion. The child, who hasn't done anything wrong, pays for their bad behavior.

Not sure how old you are but I was around pre-legal abortions. There was a young woman in our neighborhood who made a bad decision, got pregnant, and sought help from an old lady who was known to do the job. This was the coat hanger and garden hose type of procedure and something went terribly wrong. The young woman bleed to death before they could get her to the hospital not three blocks away. I have a young granddaughter, If, God forbid, she should make a bad decision and wishes to have an abortion for any reason, then I pray that she can go to a clinical facility with trained medical personal then to some chain smoking old hag in a dirty kitchen for the procedure. I will always love my granddaughter more than any unborn fetus. And it's not a child, it's a fetus.

 

[Earthling]

Not sure how old you are but I was around pre-legal abortions. There was a young woman in our neighborhood who made a bad decision, got pregnant, and sought help from an old lady who was known to do the job. This was the coat hanger and garden hose type of procedure and something went terribly wrong. The young woman bleed to death before they could get her to the hospital not three blocks away. I have a young granddaughter, If, God forbid, she should make a bad decision and wishes to have an abortion for any reason, then I pray that she can go to a clinical facility with trained medical personal then to some chain smoking old hag in a dirty kitchen for the procedure. I will always love my granddaughter more than any unborn fetus. And it's not a child, it's a fetus.

At one time your granddaughter was a fetus. If her mother had made a terrible mistake and went to an abortion clinic, your granddaughter wouldn't be here. Women die from legal abortions as well. In 1972 (the year before abortion was federally legalized), a total of 24 women died from causes known to be associated with legal abortions, and 39 died as a result of known illegal abortions (CDC). (Facts About Abortion Link)

I recall a comedian telling a joke about abortion. "With us its called abortion but with chickens its called an omelet." Where would you draw the line on how developed your fertilized breakfast eggs should be?

 

[Duke_Leto]

At one time your granddaughter was a fetus. If her mother had made a terrible mistake and went to an abortion clinic, your granddaughter wouldn't be here. Women die from legal abortions as well. In 1972 (the year before abortion was federally legalized), a total of 24 women died from causes known to be associated with legal abortions, and 39 died as a result of known illegal abortions (CDC). (Facts About Abortion Link)

I recall a comedian telling a joke about abortion. "With us its called abortion but with chickens its called an omelet." Where would you draw the line on how developed your fertilized breakfast eggs should be?

The eggs meant for consumption typically aren’t fertilized in the West, though I recall that in China and southeast Asia, fertilized and fairly developed eggs are also common.

 

[fantome profane]

Yes, he has a point and that has been stated before. I'm fine with abortion for population control and eugenic purposes (for the extreme cases) but obviously education and birth control needs to be made as available as possible.

I find this really disturbing. I am strongly pro-choice, but that is because I respect personal autonomy and oppose government intrusion into such an important personal life decision.

Abortion for population control or eugenic purposes implies government intrusion of the most horrific kind. I hope society never sinks to the level where woman are forced to get abortions for these reasons.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

My issue concerning abortion will always be revolved around the ability for the fetus to perceive and feel pain.

The current scientific consensus is that all vertebrates feel pain and some invertebrates may do so. So, are you a vegan? Do you oppose killing rats?

No matter what you personally feel, the fetus is a child.

That is a matter of definition or opinion. Judaism, for example, denies it.

Personally, I find it rather offensive that so many here telling women what they cannot do are men.

 

[Earthling]

The current scientific consensus is that all vertebrates feel pain and some invertebrates may do so. So, are you a vegan? Do you oppose killing rats?


That is a matter of definition or opinion. Judaism, for example, denies it.

Personally, I find it rather offensive that so many here telling women what they cannot do are men.

I don't recall anyone telling women what they cannot do.

 

[BSM1]

I don't recall anyone telling women what they cannot do.

Really??

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I find this really disturbing. I am strongly pro-choice, but that is because I respect personal autonomy and oppose government intrusion into such an important personal life decision.

Abortion for population control or eugenic purposes implies government intrusion of the most horrific kind. I hope society never sinks to the level where woman are forced to get abortions for these reasons.

Nah, I think it should be between the person and their doctor. Although I do fear what's going to happen due to the catastrophic effects of climate change.