did we come from monkeys

[linwood]

I'd like to remind you Mr. Spinkles and probably many more here on these forums, that when you all were much younger you did in fact believe in Jesus Christ and God.

Actually this is incorrect.
I cannot recall any instance in my life of believing in any deity.
Not one.
I have , not even as a child, ever spoken of Jesus in any other sense than questioning.

 

[Druidus]

I was baptized before my first birthday, and was confirmed about 3-4 years ago. However, I'm a Druid now, so I get extra bonus points! I'm covered two ways now! :jiggy: (Although in Druidry, it doesn't matter if you were a Druid or not, as long as you lived honourably.)

 

[The Voice of Reason]

I know I feel much better now. I was Baptised before my first birthday. whew~!!

Damned close call there, Linwood. You and Druidus were at some serious risk for about an eight or nine month exposure. Good thing God didn't call you home before you saw the light.

TVOR

 

[Quoth The Raven]

And if you never believed in God at any point you're f****d? A bit tragic.

Doesn't help all those people in deepest darkest Africa who never even heard of God much, does it.

 

[true blood]

Congrats to everyone who believed as a child and Lady Lazarus your correct. Those people who never had the chance to believe will be resurrected and judged by God.

 

[Faust]

Could it not be possible with God that some men have evolved from apes and some men came from another source? Many places in scripture are references to some humans as merely brute beasts and animals and then there are references of other humans that are from God. Is it not possible, for example, that Deut. has evolved from his ancestry of apes and that others could trace their lineage unto Adam. Perhaps God knew in his foreknowledge that apes would evolve into humans but that these beastly humans would not be capable of believing in God, so then God created Adam with the capacity to have spirit and know God. This would bring about two types of people. Those who are capable of belief and those who are not. Very simple and alot of scripture could back up my theory.
(posted earlier in this thread by Trueblood)

I believe that most of the references to mere brutes and animals are refereing to those of other races and beliefs, as people today seem to view things.
Your theory about humans evolving from apes or descending from Adam sounds alot like the Gnostic belief, that only those who are the recipients of the "divine spark" are the children of divinity.
As far as being capable of believing in God, it would seem to me that for the most part, those who do not believe in God or gods have been lead to that conclusion by logic and reason. And those who believe in God or gods base this belief on faith. That would suggest that the monkey-men,and women are superior in the arena of mental capabilities?
What if a non believing monkey descendent through some mental gymnastics comes to believe in God? Would that be evolution?
What if an infinite number of monkeys with Hewlett- Packards could write the Bible? Where would that leave us? Im awarding you frubals for your apparent unwhitting conversion to Gnosticism on this one. And as I have stated before, I believe you have a strong inclination towards logic. Perhaps you are the next step in human evolution? But I am just monkeying around here. (he he )

 

[Faust]

Trueblood,
Please forgive me if I got carried away with my previous post. I was overcome with with jocularity and have a bad habit of posting before I engage my brain or my sensitivity.
I do really enjoy your input in this forum and am growing fonder of your presence by the moment.I am simply an old-fart who loves to debate and I do believe your theory has merit on a certain level.
Peace, Faust.

 

[Sunstone]

I was overcome with with jocularity...

My dear Faust, I for one am quite disturbed that you were overcome with jocularity. The proper tone of these Forums is one of extreme seriousness -- Indeed, almost grimness -- and members should strive to maintain that gruelling tone at all times. Religion is serious business, as you should know. I myself have never been overcome with jocularity, and I fail to see how you -- or anyone -- could possibly be.

Yours in ernest seriousness,

Sunstone

 

[HelpMe]

Despite its simplicity, the statement "Allah created me" explains nothing. What you call "Allah" is poorly defined, unobserved, and does nothing to explain why I exist the way I do. In contrast the sciences of genetics, familly history, primate biology, human anatomy, psychology, and even astronomy explain a great deal about how I was created and why I am the way I am. That the violent deaths of massive stars billions of years ago created a few of the iodine atoms circulating through my thumb right now (from "Astronomy" by Seeds). That is a specific, well-defined explanation of the origin of the iodine atoms in my thumb. It is supported by evidence and derived from observation. It is an explanation that actually explains something; that "I was created by Allah" is an explanation that fails to explain anything.

those supposed massive stars you claim that there is proof of their existance, how did they get there?and you believe they created iodine atoms out of nothing?something we claim to 'observed' through evidence, but there's no record of?and cannot recreate?

how exactly does one observe what happened billions of years ago?would it be very much similar to the observance of pink unicorns?

since i agree with the statement 'god(allah) created me'(although it is much to simple a saying to define why we are here), i sure hope you don't mind my simply defending it as that 'god'(aka allah) wanted to share life and free will.i don't know any religious person that i trust that has said 'i have observed god', so i don't know why you are claiming that this should be necessary to everyone as it is to you.

Why can't intelligent design and evolution co-exist? I sincerely don't understand.

i believe the evolution that supposedly(simply because i myself have not seen it) happened in fruit flies proves that evolution can happen.but then one may ask how many reproduction sessions took place over 35 generations?and how many have taken place with humans and other observable creatures that we've seen?and why, just why we haven't seen one happen naturally?

luke 16:8-...for the sons of this world are for their own generation wiser than the sons of the light

love

 

[Mr Spinkles]

how exactly does one observe what happened billions of years ago?would it be very much similar to the observance of pink unicorns?

No. Photons of light from distant objects take billions of years to reach the Earth. To observe things that happened billions of years ago, simply point a telescope at the night sky.

I'll answer the rest of your post at a later time so that this can sink in.

 

[HelpMe]

are you saying we are observing our beginning as it happened and has followed us...at a slower rate?or that we're observing some other big bangs going on?i've honestly never heard that any photon of light would take billions of years to reach us, so if you don't mind, what is your credible resource?

are you also saying that the mere existance of light reflections proves a big bang theory to you?is this truly less absurd to you than a pink unicorn?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

i've honestly never heard that any photon of light would take billions of years to reach us, so if you don't mind, what is your credible resource?

"Astronomy" by Michael A. Seeds. Dr. S.G. Alexander, my physics 111 professor.

are you also saying that the mere existance of light reflections proves a big bang theory to you?is this truly less absurd to you than a pink unicorn?

Light reflections? When did I say anything about "light reflections"? HelpMe, you clearly have no idea what you are talking about--stars emit black body radiation, not reflected light, and the big bang can be directly observed. If you really want to learn more on this subject, consider buying the textbook I cited above.

 

[HelpMe]

i'm sorry, what is the difference in speed of travel between a 'reflection of a light' and a 'photon of a light'?my words sometimes are not what i intend to say.black body radiation is the same thing as a photon of light?

i've still never heard that we are seeing things from billions of years ago, i believe i heard the next closest galaxy is 40 or so yrs at the speed of light, but i've never heard that the furthest is billions of years away.can you really compare seeing what we can(very little correct?) to witnessing a big bang(something i could of sworn only happened at the very beginning, lol)?exactly how did you come across the fact that said suppsed big bang is producing life from nothing?you can only imagine my astonishment that your infallible professor, excuse me, proof of life on other planets isn't a widespread belief in my local community.would you mind telling me if those other planets with lifes are as,less,or more developed than us?do they have pink unicorns?i imagine that if you could accurately see a galaxy twice(or more) as far away as another is, that you could at least tell me what these planets outside of the milky way look like.

would your professor's book wouldn't be available at my local bookstore?

 

[Druidus]

A billion light years isn't that far, considering the scale of the universe.

Light reflections? When did I say anything about "light reflections"?

Telescopes? They use reflections. Also, your eye does. lol

 

[Mr Spinkles]

i've still never heard that we are seeing things from billions of years ago, i believe i heard the next closest galaxy is 40 or so yrs at the speed of light, but i've never heard that the furthest is billions of years away.

You learn something new every day. The Milky Way alone is 75,000 light years in diameter.

 

[HelpMe]

thanks though i am reading that it is considerably larger(33%).what(75) do i trust(100)?does this say anything of the supposed accuracy the system you're asking me and anyone else you talk to regarding these things?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

You learn something new every day.

I used to believe this little nugget as well, but after reading some of the dogmatic replies used to reinforce indefensible beliefs, I am beginning to doubt that this quote can be universally applied to all the members of our species.

TVOR

 

[Mr Spinkles]

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it. "

Voltaire

HelpMe--From the first link you provided: "The Milky Way Galaxy is a pinwheel-shaped flattened disk about 75,000 light-years in diameter."

The other link was broken.

does this say anything of the supposed accuracy the system you're asking me and anyone else you talk to regarding these things?

I never said it was 100% accurate. Still, the thousands of professional astronomers on Earth are a long way from accepting the ridiculous statement you "heard" that "the next closest galaxy is 40 or so yrs at the speed of light".

At any rate, this is all off the topic "did we come from monkeys". We have already shown the falsity of your statement that astronomers cannot directly observe the past, so let's move on.

 

[HelpMe]

the second link simply referred to someone who said that it was 100,000 instead of 75

We have already shown the falsity of your statement that astronomers cannot directly observe the past, so let's move on.

are you saying we can monitor the past?directly?

this is lovely, really.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

the second link simply referred to someone who said that it was 100,000 instead of 75

Is this one of those things you 'heard', like how the nearest galaxy is only forty light years away?

are you saying we can monitor the past?directly?

Help me help you, HelpMe. I already answered your original question "how exactly does one observe what happened billions of years ago". Time is relative. By pointing a telescope at objects that are X light years away, and you can directly observe events that happened X years in the past.

Now let's get back on topic, please.