Massimo2002
Active Member
Christians say that we have given into temptation and thus evil entered the world but perhaps God is evil for allowing us to even be tempted into he first place.
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Did we fail God or did God fail us ?
- Thread starter Massimo2002
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That God gave freedom, unlike earthly politicians want to do, makes Him great. If some use that freedom wrongly, it is not God's fault and it does not mean that God should not give freedom. But, would it be ok to you, if God would force you to be good?
Let no man say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God," for God can't be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each one is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:13-14
God teaches to love one another but it is our own choice not to do so. We are responsible for the decisions we make not anyone else, not God.
I think you have that backwards.
Perhaps neither.
I've noted quite a number of logical contradictions in what people say about God. I don't think anyone really knows. They're just guessing.
My guess is that evil came about due to circumstances. If people are thrown into an inhospitable environment where life is harsh and short, and where the natural elements around them appear indifferent, yet they still have an inborn will to survive, then acts of evil will most certainly be the result. It's just how we evolved - or (if we were created) how we were programmed. We were made with an indefatigable determination to live, even though we know we can't live forever.
It's a weird life in a strange universe. Nobody knows what we're in or how we got here, so the only thing left to do is enjoy the ride for as long as it lasts.
That's the implication. The quality of a creation reflects on the abilities of its creator. If we're created, then our failings are also God's failings.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I believe God failed us and will explain why.
According to the Bible, God has infinite power (Psalm 147:5; Job 42:2; Daniel 2:21), infinite knowledge (Psalm 139:1–6; Isaiah 46:9–10; 1 John 3:20), and is present everywhere simultaneously (Psalm 139:7–10; Isaiah 40:12; Colossians 1:17). Having established these biblical claims about God's divine attributes, I will continue with my viewpoint. In my opinion, God is evil because, based on these scriptures, he created Adam and Eve knowing that they would disobey him after using the serpent to purposely tempt them with a forbidden fruit. According to the creation story, God not only punished Adam and Eve for their disobedience (which he knew would happen), but he also punished the serpent for doing what he knew it would do. But he didn't stop there; he punished and unjustly cursed the rest of humanity with a sinful nature for the sin of Adam and Eve, which the rest of humanity had no control over. He then devised a wicked plan to murder his own son by crucifying him in order to atone for his initial sin of creating humanity, knowing that they would become corrupt.
Furthermore, if God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, as the Bible claims, then surely he would know better than to create Adam and Eve and the rest of mankind, knowing that he would later regret creating humanity and repopulate the planet with the same morally flawed humans that he just annihilated in a global flood. According to Genesis 6:6, he regretted creating humanity as well as every animal, every creature that creeps on the ground, and the birds of the air. Thus, he carried out his plan to annihilate humanity in a global flood, with the exception of Noah and his family (Genesis 6:7-8).
In accordance with these scriptures, it is my opinion that God is morally depraved (sinful, evil, sadistic) to first create Adam and Eve knowing that they would disobey him and that he would punish them for their disobedience; second, he punished and cursed Satan (the serpent), despite using Satan to carry out his nefarious plan to tempt Adam and Eve into disobeying him; third, punish and curse the rest of humanity with a sinful nature because of Adam and Eve's disobedience against him, despite the fact that the rest of humanity had nothing to do with it; and finally, he brutally tortured and killed his own son to "redeem" humanity for behaving exactly the way he knew they would behave before he created Adam and Eve. I think that is truly evil (Isaiah 45:7).
That doesn't resolve the problem, though.
If we have free will to follow our innate tendencies and desires and these tendencies and desires lead to bad outcomes, well... who's responsible for those innate tendencies and desires (or the mechanisms that lead to those consequences)? Humans didn’t choose them, so we know it's not us.
PureX
Veteran Member
Evil became a possibility when we acquired the ability to make choices. Yet without an ability to make choices, there is no point to our being here at all.
So, since evil is going to remain a possible choice for us, as long as we have the ability to make a choice, perhaps we should just decide not to choose it. And solve the problem that way.
I won't comment from a Christian theological perspective as a non-Christian. The "problem of evil" is absent in my religion as the gods are simply not assumed to revolve around human beings in the first place. To me, that's a simpler explanation - the universe (the gods) doesn't revolve around humans and they are not here to serve us. How can one fail to serve something's interests when that is not one's purpose and nature to begin with?
Massimo2002
Active Member
What does what we're in mean ?
Massimo2002
Active Member
I disappointing life would still be worth living even without choices.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
I recall something in Genesis teaching us something about this dynamic. "Don't do so and so, because on the day you do THAT, you will surely die." On to the "What have you done!" You've become as one of us now, knowing both good AND evil, and for this reason you will go through some really difficult times and feel accursed for it."
Who failed?
Ahh, the light is brought to the table ... The tree of life, preserved and guarded by a flaming sword wielding cherubim. Maybe it truly takes two to tango.
As in, the place that we are in. Earth. The Universe. We can reference it, but what is this place that we exist in? Does anyone really know?
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
I think the way we navigate life and how our experiences help determine our choices, that we will one day find ourselves far better equipped than we are now. I like oven mitts. If you've never grabbed hold of a cast iron pan from the oven without one, you might not understand why I like them. If you have, then chances are you understand something about something.
Why do you think humans don't choose them?
I think humans choose them. But, even if it would not be so, humans choose to go by them. Humans could also choose not to go by the tendencies.
You choose your desires? Not just whether to act on your desires, but your actual desires?
This hasn't been my experience. Has it been yours?
And you think that humans choose the mechanisms that lead to consequences? By that, I meant things like how stabbing someone can injure them, but trying to shoot death rays out of our eyes can't. If we had different physiology, we'd be less vulnerable to, say, being choked to death. If we were autotrophic, it would be harder for us to starve. I don't think any of this was chosen by humans; do you?
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Who is God though whom lets a serpent into the Garden to tempt? This contradicts your Bible quote of James.
Also God being the Omni everything would certainly give lawful defense to the redeemable world, yet victimization happens all the time here on Earth. A perfect God enforces, and doesn't stand by and watch all this. God has no need of evil to let it exist, and run free.
God acts as though God does not exist and/or can't do anything right with God's creations. This particular God isn't credible, nor competent. The choice is clear.
Allowing free will to choose between good and evil is not a problem. Leaving evil free to do whatsoever is woefully inadequate. There's a big difference there.
MayPeaceBeUpOnYou
Active Member
I am not a Christian but like to give my perspective
How can you define good if there is no evil?
You can’t
If god is objectively good why allow evil?
Because it’s part of his plan
Would god create us if there is no evil to tempt us?
What’s the point of the test if we are all perfect, so in other words why did god create us?
My belief is that He created us to worship him alone with no partners. He puts obstacles in our lives to test us and one of those obstacles is Him letting the devil to tempt us. Not because He want to punish us but for us to repent and seek his forgiveness, for us to grow as a person, for us to becoming the best version of ourselves,
Allah is so merciful that you can turn your back on Him your whole life but when you sincere repent to him in your last breath you take before you die, He will forgive you.
So to respond to your statement.
Since God is all knowing, he created us with the ability to sin, with that is also accepting we were meant to sin. Im addition to that He also gave us the possibility to get rid of the sin and that is with repentance.
God is not evil since he is good and he created the devil so in that sense he can’t be his own creation