Did We Unknowingly Elect Hillary?

[Audie]

Trump threatens Iran with.....
"To Iranian President Rouhani: NEVER, EVER THREATEN THE UNITED STATES
AGAIN OR YOU WILL SUFFER CONSEQUENCES THE LIKES OF WHICH FEW
THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE EVER SUFFERED BEFORE. WE ARE NO LONGER
A COUNTRY THAT WILL STAND FOR YOUR DEMENTED WORDS OF VIOLENCE
& DEATH. BE CAUTIOUS!"
The above quote is from....
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/22/world/middleeast/trump-threatens-iran-twitter.html

After Hillary threatened during the campaign to "obliterate Iran", it seems that
Trump is now channelling her hostility. This occurs with his reneging on the
nuclear agreement, his imposing new economic sanctions, & threatening allies
to coerce them to go along. I can't think of a better way to inspire Iran to want
nuclear weapons.


For those who don't already know, some historical highlights....
1953: We interfered with their election (OK when we do it to others) by having
the CIA stage a coup to overthrow an elected leader in order to install The Shah.
1980-88: We Supplied Iraq with military assistance (including WMDs, eg, chemical
weapons, biological weapons) in an unprovoked attack. Around a million Iranians
died in this conflict.
1988: We shoot down Iranian commercial airliner (Flight 655), killing 290 people.
It was an Airbus 300, which in no way resembles the F-14 we identified it as.

It's pretty clear that Iran has suffered greatly at our hands. From their perspective,
we cannot be trusted to be peaceful towards them, especially given Israel's hatred
for Iran, Israel's penchant for pre-emptive military attacks, & Israel's overwhelming
influence upon Americastanian leadership. To become a nuclear power would appear
to be the best way to fend off future US attacks.

War with Iran wouldn't benefit anyone (except Israel), including Trump.
(The economic costs of war would reduce his real estate equity.)
How is all this saber rattling putting Americastan 1st?

I know several Iranians. Just the nicest, best people!
I am so sad that there "has to" be conflict between
our countries!!!

 

[David1967]

I think we might be building up to war with Iran. I do know there are a lot of folks in Washington who want one.

@Sunstone , I sure 'hope' you are wrong about this.

 

[Audie]

My rambling point was that the nuclear option cannot be on the table against a non-nuclear power. That means a conventional war and we all saw how well that has worked out in Iraq and Afghanistan. Personally, I don't see this dog getting off the mat, let alone going to hunt.

There was plenty of talk of using nukes on K Korea,
and China before they had nukes, and, on N Vietnam.

 

[David1967]

For those who don't already know, some historical highlights....
1953: We interfered with their election (OK when we do it to others) by having
the CIA stage a coup to overthrow an elected leader in order to install The Shah.
1980-88: We Supplied Iraq with military assistance (including WMDs, eg, chemical
weapons, biological weapons) in an unprovoked attack. Around a million Iranians
died in this conflict.
1988: We shoot down Iranian commercial airliner (Flight 655), killing 290 people.
It was an Airbus 300, which in no way resembles the F-14 we identified it as.

Sadly, few people in the U.S. know or even want to know this tidbit of unfortunate history.

 

[David1967]

Defense contractors in Northern Virginia are licking their chops.

No doubt. Afghanistan cant last forever, right?

 

[David1967]

no one, in their right mind, would use them for a first strike scenario, especially against a non-nuclear adversary.

Japan notwithstanding?

 

[LuisDantas]

I truly have to wonder what on Earth motivates some people (including the OP creator, clearly) to assume that Hillary would be worse than this loose cannon that you ellected in late 2016.

Hillary was a rational person, from all appearances.

 

[Riders]

The OP is just so bizarre and terribly illogical. How in the world can Hillary be blamed for Trump's saber-rattling when it was under Obama and Hillary that helped to organize the Iranian Agreement in order to try and stop nuclear proliferation and its possible consequence in the first place? And even if Hillary had pushed a similar approach, doesn't Trump have a brain of his own?

Oops, maybe I should take back my latter question.

Me too i can;t figure out if this thread is suppose to be about Hillarys and Trumps similarities or irans relationsip with us?

 

[tytlyf]

Me too i can;t figure out if this thread is suppose to be about Hillarys and Trumps similarities or irans relationsip with us?

This thread was @Revoltingest attempt at another false equivalence. He's good at that.

 

[Revoltingest]

What she voted for is irrelevant.

Wrongo pongo.
A candidate's voting record is prologue, ie, very predictive of future behavior.
She voted to start one war, & voted to continue both.

What aren't you comparing to other GOP or Democratic candidates at the time that were pro war? Why is this purely isolated with Hillary?

I did compare both leading up to the election.
But this thread is about what Trump is doing now.
And his current behavior indicates a bellicosity
which reminded me of Hillary's record & campaign
threat towards Iran....hence, the thread's title.

She is no longer in government.

No, but her prior actions in government resonate with
Trump's current behavior...hence the thread's title.

Your arguments are hypothetical at best.

Well, spluuUUuuUUuuh....of course they're hypothetical.
We're addressing what might happen as a result of what
is currently happening.

The main influence is our president so why is there any discussion with Hillary?

I've explained that.
But if you don't want to discuss her, then address what Trump is doing.
The vast bulk of the OP is about Trump & Iran.

 

[Revoltingest]

This thread was @Revoltingest attempt at another false equivalence. He's good at that.

Bless your heart.

 

[Revoltingest]

You leave out the reasoning behind the 'war mongering' as proof she's a war monger. And you did it intentionally with this thread.

You should learn some history about Hillary's congressional voting record.
I notice that you're continually trying to deflect from the issue of Trump's
threatening war with Iran. Do you favor Israel's desire for us to attack them?

 

[suncowiam]

Wrongo pongo.
A candidate's voting record is prologue, ie, very predictive of future behavior.
She voted to start one war, & voted to continue both.

I did compare both leading up to the election.
But this thread is about what Trump is doing now.
And his current behavior indicates a bellicosity
which reminded me of Hillary's record & campaign
threat towards Iran....hence, the thread's title.

No, but her prior actions in government resonate with
Trump's current behavior...hence the thread's title.

Well, spluuUUuuUUuuh....of course they're hypothetical.
We're addressing what might happen as a result of what
is currently happening.

I've explained that.
But if you don't want to discuss her, then address what Trump is doing.
The vast bulk of the OP is about Trump & Iran.

It's irrelvant to this current situation.

You might as well pull every hawk that quoted on Iran into this discussion.

Why are you only focusing on Hillary then? You opened up that topic.

Why does her past actions have any influence on what Trump does?

 

[fantome profane]

Notice how he left out Hillary’s voting for 2 wars?

Did you oppose both of those wars? I consider myself a moderate pacifist, but I believe that one of those wars was justified, regrettable but necessary.

(My country partipated in one of those wars, not the other)

 

[Revoltingest]

I know several Iranians. Just the nicest, best people!
I am so sad that there "has to" be conflict between
our countries!!!

Aye, remember this?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthew-filipowicz/hillary-clintons-disturbi_b_8297580.html
Iranians I know took it very personally, ie, that she hated them, not just the government.
From them, I know that Iranians are generally friendly towards Americastanians.
But our government has been working overtime change that to enmity.
Hillary sure had a lot of enemies.
She doesn't just disagree about policy....she hates, especially us "deploriables".
Dang....she's sounding more & more like our current flavor of Trump.

 

[Revoltingest]

Did you oppose both of those wars?

Yes, completely.
Each portended an endless quagmire.
(Sorry, @Quagmire.)
The claim of WMDs in Iraq was irrelevant.
Whether there or not (& they were there because we supplied them
in the 80s) wasn't enuf justification for invasion & regime change.

And who ever won a war in Afghanistan....other than Afghans?

I consider myself a moderate pacifist, but I believe that one of those wars was justified, regrettable but necessary.

I'm not a pacifist.
I designed weapons to kill people & destroy things.
I believe in having that ability.
But I'm a non-aggresionist.
Even if a war looks morally justifiable, we lack the wisdom
& will to be moral in carrying it to a final conclusion.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sadly, few people in the U.S. know or even want to know this tidbit of unfortunate history.

If we really knew this history, & took our proffered
values to heart, it would change everything.
But we don't, we don't, & so it won't.

 

[Quetzal]

Aye, remember this?
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthew-filipowicz/hillary-clintons-disturbi_b_8297580.html
Iranians I know took it very personally, ie, that she hated them, not just the government.
From them, I know that Iranians are generally friendly towards Americastanians.
But our government has been working overtime change that to enmity.
Hillary sure had a lot of enemies.
She doesn't just disagree about policy....she hates, especially us "deploriables".
Dang....she's sounding more & more like our current flavor of Trump.

Wow! A HuffPo article showing a negative of Hillary? Might want to print that out, might be collectors item one day.

 

[Revoltingest]

Wow! A HuffPo article showing a negative of Hillary? Might want to print that out, might be collectors item one day.

You know things are bad when they start eating their own.

 

[fantome profane]

Yes, completely.
Each portended an endless quagmire.
(Sorry, @Quagmire.)
The claim of WMDs in Iraq was irrelevant.
Whether there or not (& they were there because we supplied them
in the 80s) wasn't enuf justification for invasion & regime change.

And who ever won a war in Afghanistan....other than Afghans?

I'm not a pacifist.
I designed weapons to kill people & destroy things.
But I'm a non-aggresionist.
Even if a war looks morally justifiable, we lack the wisdom
& will to be moral in carrying it to a final conclusion.

So what should have been done as a response to 911?