Did you read Quran neutrally?

[paarsurrey]

I have read much of it a long time ago,i think though that it only an interesting read if you are a believer to begin with,its a bit like struggling through the first few pages of the Bible,you know Adam begat Cane and Able and they begat so and so etc so if you do not believe its a sruggle to read it.
What i find interesting is for the majority of Muslims,the Qur'an does'nt stand alone and requires one to read the Sunna and ahadith to fully appreciate it which is puzzling for a book with a clear message.

Quran has a clear message and does not necessarily need Ahadith. Sunnah is just demonstration of the acts that were commanded in Quran.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I get one more question to muslims here
After having read Quran ,do you ever try to read scriptures of other religions esp. of the East?
Can you after reading Quran ,read other scriptures like Bible,Torah,Talmud,Upanishads,Bhagavat Gita ,GGS(Guru granth sahib),Dhammapada,Kitáb-i-Aqdas etc neutrally without being affected by your established views?All the above are said to be God Books.
This question is not meant hijack the thread.

I read the books I have coloured in magenta. I also read OT , NT , Yasna and Gospel of Buddha. I liked reading them and enjoyed most.
Regards

 

[McBell]

Quran has a clear message and does not necessarily need Ahadith. Sunnah is just demonstration of the acts that were commanded in Quran.
Regards

Clear message?
Why all the differing Hadiths?
Why the numerous Muslims denominations?

 

[paarsurrey]

Clear message?
Why all the differing Hadiths?
Why the numerous Muslims denominations?

Not because of Quran but due to deviation from Quran or not understanding Quran correctly. Hadith was written 250/300 years after Muhammad and did not exist in the time of Muhammad.
Quran is the first and the foremost source of guidance of Islam/Muhammad, whatever the denomination.
Regards

 

[McBell]

Not because of Quran but due to deviation from Quran or not understanding Quran correctly. Hadith was written 250/300 years after Muhammad and did not exist in the time of Muhammad.
Quran is the first and the foremost source of guidance of Islam/Muhammad, whatever the denomination.
Regards

Way to miss the point.

 

[MARCELLO]

Dear Paarsurrey, take me as an example,I am not an idiot,that's for sure,they would not put me as a vice manager of a multinational construction company,if I were ,right?

I am an emotinal guy too,not a heartless one. I contribute and donate to ones in need with fat cheques,as I cannot stand them suffering in front of me.

On the other hand,I am from an atheist and secularist family and background that means I do not carry any prejudices of any religion .

But I am so against with the basic concepts of islam which is the only religion annoys me so much. I have lotta muslim friends coz I live in East Africa so I never feel that I hate muslims.

But then, why,why do you think a humanist like me could be so against your religion?

Is it proper to question me or something else?

 

[morphesium]

I think a book contain: Economical guides, Historical stories, Scientifical provisions, Political issues, Ethical awareness, total view of life and human future and last but not least very clear view of God and his adjectives.. I think that book need at least one time (Neutral) reading without pre-concepts from media or anything else.

So, did you read Quran as a book neutrally?

I have gone through some verses of Quran mostly out of curiosity. Actually, before reading those versus, I assumed it was perfect. When someone told me that there are such sentences supporting unethical practices in Quran, I actually went through the Quran to disprove the other guy. These and similar facts made me think about religion - to ponder more and more about these. I admit that I was really afraid to think against my religion , what if the "God" get angry with me, What if he punishes me, I asked to my self again and again, and eventually I realized that these "religious Gods" all came to us externally and were all man-made. True God speaks to us through our morale (no religion can do this). It is the best way god can speak to us without showing his presence or interfering with us. I realized that all religions are man made and hence there are many blunders in it.

In terms of scientific facts, even a sixth graders science text is more scientifically valuable than any holy text I have seen. My morale couldn't agree with the ethics of Quran which to me is very inferior. I can't agree with the concept of "one God". I can't agree with the purpose of messengers or prophets or even the book Quran.

If you can read Quran - at least some versus of it (neutrally and with courage) you will reject Quran.

 

[Eliah]

I think a book contain: Economical guides, Historical stories, Scientifical provisions, Political issues, Ethical awareness, total view of life and human future.
So, did you read Quran as a book neutrally?

Yes the quran has many errors, much historically and alot of big misunderstandings. It is apparent that muhammad wrote it with his knowledge and how he understood things.
I shall give you an example,

*sura 3:35-36* - says that the WIFE of Imram gave birth to Mary/Miriam (Jesus mother) and that Marys/Miriams brother was named Aaron ( quran 19:27-28) - this is a huge misunderstanding. Miriam (Aarons sister/Imrams daughter) lived aprox 1000 years before Mary (Jesus mother) - these are 2 different people. muhammad misunderstood this and thought it is 1 and the same person.
Imram was father to Miriam who had a brother named Aaron. Mary (Jesus mother) had a father named Heli. It is not the same person.

Other strange things i came by was; Sunan Abu Dawud 3991 - where muhammad says strange things that are scientifically wrong.
There are more problems.

The quran has many errors, both mathematically, historically and scientifically.

 

[paarsurrey]

Yes the quran has many errors, much historically and alot of big misunderstandings. It is apparent that muhammad wrote it with his knowledge and how he understood things.
I shall give you an example,

*sura 3:35-36* - says that the WIFE of Imram gave birth to Mary/Miriam (Jesus mother) and that Marys/Miriams brother was named Aaron ( quran 19:27-28) - this is a huge misunderstanding. Miriam (Aarons sister/Imrams daughter) lived aprox 1000 years before Mary (Jesus mother) - these are 2 different people. muhammad misunderstood this and thought it is 1 and the same person.
Imram was father to Miriam who had a brother named Aaron. Mary (Jesus mother) had a father named Heli. It is not the same person.

Other strange things i came by was; Sunan Abu Dawud 3991 - where muhammad says strange things that are scientifically wrong.
There are more problems.

The quran has many errors, both mathematically, historically and scientifically.

When did Quran claim that it is a book on Mathematics, History or Science? Please quote from Quran, if you can.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Dear Paarsurrey, take me as an example,I am not an idiot,that's for sure,they would not put me as a vice manager of a multinational construction company,if I were ,right?
I am an emotinal guy too,not a heartless one. I contribute and donate to ones in need with fat cheques,as I cannot stand them suffering in front of me.
On the other hand,I am from an atheist and secularist family and background that means I do not carry any prejudices of any religion .
But I am so against with the basic concepts of islam which is the only religion annoys me so much. I have lotta muslim friends coz I live in East Africa so I never feel that I hate muslims.
But then, why,why do you think a humanist like me could be so against your religion?
Is it proper to question me or something else?

Did I say you are one? Sure I did not say.
Regards

 

[Eliah]

When did Quran claim that it is a book on Mathematics, History or Science? Please quote from Quran, if you can.
Regards

if it IS scientifically WRONG then it can not be from God. It doesn't have to be a book of mathmetics or science, or do you claim that it can be from your 'allah' even though it has math errors, science errors and history errors? Do you understand, or still confused?

 

[paarsurrey]

Dear Paarsurrey, take me as an example,I am not an idiot,that's for sure,they would not put me as a vice manager of a multinational construction company,if I were ,right?
I am an emotinal guy too,not a heartless one. I contribute and donate to ones in need with fat cheques,as I cannot stand them suffering in front of me.
On the other hand,I am from an atheist and secularist family and background that means I do not carry any prejudices of any religion .
But I am so against with the basic concepts of islam which is the only religion annoys me so much. I have lotta muslim friends coz I live in East Africa so I never feel that I hate muslims.
But then, why,why do you think a humanist like me could be so against your religion?
Is it proper to question me or something else?

I don't get you as to what you want to convey by your sentence which I have coloured in magenta. Please elaborate.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Yes the quran has many errors, much historically and alot of big misunderstandings. It is apparent that muhammad wrote it with his knowledge and how he understood things.
I shall give you an example,
*sura 3:35-36* - says that the WIFE of Imram gave birth to Mary/Miriam (Jesus mother) and that Marys/Miriams brother was named Aaron ( quran 19:27-28) - this is a huge misunderstanding. Miriam (Aarons sister/Imrams daughter) lived aprox 1000 years before Mary (Jesus mother) - these are 2 different people. muhammad misunderstood this and thought it is 1 and the same person.
Imram was father to Miriam who had a brother named Aaron. Mary (Jesus mother) had a father named Heli. It is not the same person.
Other strange things i came by was; Sunan Abu Dawud 3991 - where muhammad says strange things that are scientifically wrong.
There are more problems.
The quran has many errors, both mathematically, historically and scientifically.

Do Mathematics, History and or Science claim to be 100% correct or having no error? If so please quote from them in this connection.
Regards

 

[Eliah]

Do Mathematics, History and or Science claim to be 100% correct or having no error? If so please quote from them in this connection.
Regards

So you are saying the earth is flat and science are wrong about a round shaped earth?
When for example Sunan Abu Dawud 3991 says that your prophet muhammad said the SUN goes down in water - then it is true and science is wrong, yes?
Is that what you want to say?

I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water - Sunan Abu Dawud 3991

He said, ‘It sets in a spring of murky water. But, when He wants to make it rise where it sets, He locks it up. The sun will then say, “O my Lord, I have a long distance to run.” Allah will say, “Rise where you have set.” That (will take place) when no (disbelieving) soul will get any good by believing then.’” (Musnad Ahmad, Hadith 21459 al-Risala ed.)

Quran 4:11-12 and 4:176 - About law and inheritance;
Man dies leaving behind
Wife is1/8 = 3/24 (4:12)
Daughters 2/3 = 16/24 (4:176)
Father 1/6 = 4/24 (4:11)
Mother1/6 = 4/24(4:11)
Total = 27/24=1.125 - You dont even have enough. Is math at fault here or the quran?

 

[paarsurrey]

[QUOTE="Eliah, post: 4455125, member: 58514"]So you are saying the earth is flat and science are wrong about a round shaped earth?
When for example Sunan Abu Dawud 3991 says that your prophet muhammad said the SUN goes down in water - then it is true and science is wrong, yes?
Is that what you want to say?
I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water - Sunan Abu Dawud 3991

He said, ‘It sets in a spring of murky water. But, when He wants to make it rise where it sets, He locks it up. The sun will then say, “O my Lord, I have a long distance to run.” Allah will say, “Rise where you have set.” That (will take place) when no (disbelieving) soul will get any good by believing then.’” (Musnad Ahmad, Hadith 21459 al-Risala ed.)

Quran 4:11-12 and 4:176 - About law and inheritance;
Man dies leaving behind
Wife is1/8 = 3/24 (4:12)
Daughters 2/3 = 16/24 (4:176)
Father 1/6 = 4/24 (4:11)
Mother1/6 = 4/24(4:11)
Total = 27/24=1.125 - You dont even have enough. Is math at fault here or the quran?[/QUOTE]
You are simply wrong.
I never said that earth is flat. Did I? Kindly quote from me, if I ever said this. Please
Regards

 

[Eliah]

You are simply wrong.
I never said that earth if flat. Did I? Kindly quote from me, if I ever said this. Please
Regards

Are you trolling? You didnt answer a single of my questions. Admit that your prophet is a false prophet, and that he wrote the quran himself.
You blame science isnt 100% correct, when your prophet said 'the sun' sets in warm/murky water. Again that the 'sun' has a long distance to 'run' - With a huge math error.

I can show you more and harder error if you wish. Anyhow, answer me on these errors in the quran first.

Quran 4:11-12 and 4:176 - About law and inheritance;
Man dies leaving behind
Wife is1/8 = 3/24 (4:12)
Daughters 2/3 = 16/24 (4:176)
Father 1/6 = 4/24 (4:11)
Mother1/6 = 4/24(4:11)
Total = 27/24=1.125 - very huge mathmetical error.

I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water - Sunan Abu Dawud 3991

He said, ‘It sets in a spring of murky water. But, when He wants to make it rise where it sets, He locks it up. The sun will then say, “O my Lord, I have a long distance to run.” Allah will say, “Rise where you have set.” That (will take place) when no (disbelieving) soul will get any good by believing then.’” (Musnad Ahmad, Hadith 21459 al-Risala ed.)

 

[morphesium]

When did Quran claim that it is a book on Mathematics, History or Science? Please quote from Quran, if you can.
Regards

Do Mathematics, History and or Science claim to be 100% correct or having no error? If so please quote from them in this connection.
Regards

As we gain more knowledge and if we find an error i History, or Science we correct it. Can you do this with Quran?

 

[morphesium]

Are you trolling? You didnt answer a single of my questions. Admit that your prophet is a false prophet, and that he wrote the quran himself.
You blame science isnt 100% correct, when your prophet said 'the sun' sets in warm/murky water. Again that the 'sun' has a long distance to 'run' - With a huge math error.

I can show you more and harder error if you wish. Anyhow, answer me on these errors in the quran first.

Quran 4:11-12 and 4:176 - About law and inheritance;
Man dies leaving behind
Wife is1/8 = 3/24 (4:12)
Daughters 2/3 = 16/24 (4:176)
Father 1/6 = 4/24 (4:11)
Mother1/6 = 4/24(4:11)
Total = 27/24=1.125 - very huge mathmetical error.

I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water - Sunan Abu Dawud 3991

He said, ‘It sets in a spring of murky water. But, when He wants to make it rise where it sets, He locks it up. The sun will then say, “O my Lord, I have a long distance to run.” Allah will say, “Rise where you have set.” That (will take place) when no (disbelieving) soul will get any good by believing then.’” (Musnad Ahmad, Hadith 21459 al-Risala ed.)

That "Prophet" definitely lacked proper education.

Did the angels told him this way (that makes even this particular God himself stupid)? or
Did he interpreted it the wrong way (after all he lacked proper education)?​

 

[raph]

The inheritance error is not an error in the Quran. You are using a different system then the Quran to make your calculations. Islam would not be a big religion, if the errors you see in the Quran were really there. Muslim inheritance specialists deal with this problem all the time and they are able to distribute the inheritance according to the Quran, every time.

If a mathematical system is used for hundrets of years in society, and never causes problems, I dont see how there could be an error in it.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/ma_addup.htm

 

[paarsurrey]

The inheritance error is not an error in the Quran. You are using a different system then the Quran to make your calculations. Islam would not be a big religion, if the errors you see in the Quran were really there. Muslim inheritance specialists deal with this problem all the time and they are able to distribute the inheritance according to the Quran, every time.
If a mathematical system is used for hundrets of years in society, and never causes problems, I dont see how there could be an error in it.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/ma_addup.htm

I appreciate your post.
Regards