Difference between satan and lucifer

[Heneni]

Hi there, i was wondering if our resident LHP members can answer a few of my questions.

1. Who is satan and who is lucifer - the difference between the two of them
2. What happened to satan/lucifer after the fall of adam
3. Where is satan now and where is lucifer now
4. Does either satan or lucifer have a bride

Thanks!

 

[Willamena]

I would so answer this if it wasn't in a DIR.

 

[.lava]

sorry, i've just noticed it is on DIR.


love







.

 

[Erebus]

Hi there, i was wondering if our resident LHP members can answer a few of my questions.

1. Who is satan and who is lucifer - the difference between the two of them
2. What happened to satan/lucifer after the fall of adam
3. Where is satan now and where is lucifer now
4. Does either satan or lucifer have a bride

Thanks!

Always happy to answer respectful questions :yes:

1. It depends on who you ask. Generally speaking Lucifer is considered to be the light bringer, a source of knowledge while Satan is held to be the adversary, representing carnality, individuality and opposition to the norm. Bear in mind that LHPers will generally follow their own idea of what these entities are and may not believe in them as literal beings.

2. I'm afraid I don't believe in the biblical account of creation (or the biblical description of God, Satan and Lucifer) so I can't really answer that.

3. I'll have to answer this one from a personal point of view as there are too many variables to give you a "general" LHP view. I would say that Satan simply represents humanity's primitive desires and is therefore present in all carnal actions, thoughts and feelings. Whenever you let loose and indulge your desires you are living alongside Satan. Lucifer however is present in all new ideas and all "Eureka moments" as well as being present during all magical workings. While I do believe these entities have power I don't believe in them as anthropomorphic beings... my beliefs about them are actually extremely convoluted and prone to sudden and frequent change.

4. Lilith is often believed to be the wife/consort of Satan (or sometimes of Lucifer). Her history is quite extensive so I will give you the basics:
She is likely to have originated from stories of the Lilitu which were storm/plague demons in the form of winged women which were responsible for killing women and children and seducing men. These stories altered over the years to create an image of Lilith as a succubus (a female sex demon) and later as the bride of Satan and queen of Hell. There are quite a few different accounts of who Lilith is and include:

1. She was the first wife of Adam, created from fire before the creation of Eve. She and Adam argued over sexual positions and she later left Eden to side with Satan in the wastes.
2. She was one of the angels of prostitution along with Eisheth Zenunim, Na'amah and Agrat Bat Mahlat and was a consort of the archangel Samael.
3. She is the mother of all demons and spends eternity giving birth (some people say that she was also cursed to lose 100 offspring a day, but I don't know where this idea comes from).
4. She is the dark feminine archetype, the consort of Lucifer (who, when joined together form Baphomet or the goat of Mendes).

This is honestly only a tiny amount of Lilith's history and only a few of her possible identities. Personally I think she's a fascinating character, though pouring through the masses of lore behind her is enough to overload the brain!

Anyway, I hope you found this informative and if you have any more questions I'm more than happy to try and answer

 

[EtuMalku]

Yeah I had my replies removed for just that reason . . . wrong forum if you are asking everyone, or just Christians?

 

[Azakel]

just Christians?

It's in the LHP DIR, why would she be asking Christians this question?

 

[Azakel]

Hi there, i was wondering if our resident LHP members can answer a few of my questions.

Sure no problem.

1. Who is satan and who is lucifer - the difference between the two of them

This depends on who you asks. If we're talking Literal beings then Satan is ether the Jewish Angel that follows there god, or a Christian Fallen Angel that rebelled against god, and Lucifer is the (minor) Rome god of Light,hunch Light Bringer. Metaphorically speaking, Lucifer is the Bring of Light though Knowledge and Understanding, and Satan represents Angry, Rage, Wrath(and all that good stuff). If you ask me which I believe is more likely to be real I'd say the Metaphorically ones.

2. What happened to satan/lucifer after the fall of adam

Nothing, well Ha-Satan later got turned in to Satan be the Christians but that didn't happen right after the "Fall".And Lucifer is a Rome god and really has nothing to do with Satan or Christianity. But hey Sh** happens.

3. Where is satan now and where is lucifer now

I don't know. They never write, never call.

4. Does either satan or lucifer have a bride

Who knows, they didn't invite me the the Wedding, not even the Reception.

Thanks!

You're Welcome

 

[Tiapan]

I would have thought like Thor, Woden, Frika etc they are just fictional mythological figures useful in Greek tragedy type moral plays, as fables for teaching young children moral codes.

Treating them as real would indicate we still have child like minds that have yet to mature.

Cheers

 

[Heneni]

I would have thought like Thor, Woden, Frika etc they are just fictional mythological figures useful in Greek tragedy type moral plays, as fables for teaching young children moral codes.

Treating them as real would indicate we still have child like minds that have yet to mature.

Cheers

There are questions in the OP that i asked.....did your mind miss that one oh enlightened mature one?

 

[Heneni]

1. It depends on who you ask. Generally speaking Lucifer is considered to be the light bringer, a source of knowledge while Satan is held to be the adversary, representing carnality, individuality and opposition to the norm. Bear in mind that LHPers will generally follow their own idea of what these entities are and may not believe in them as literal beings.

Is Lucifer and satan somehow 'related'.

4. Lilith is often believed to be the wife/consort of Satan (or sometimes of Lucifer). Her history is quite extensive so I will give you the basics:
She is likely to have originated from stories of the Lilitu which were storm/plague demons in the form of winged women which were responsible for killing women and children and seducing men. These stories altered over the years to create an image of Lilith as a succubus (a female sex demon) and later as the bride of Satan and queen of Hell. There are quite a few different accounts of who Lilith is and include:

1. She was the first wife of Adam, created from fire before the creation of Eve. She and Adam argued over sexual positions and she later left Eden to side with Satan in the wastes.
2. She was one of the angels of prostitution along with Eisheth Zenunim, Na'amah and Agrat Bat Mahlat and was a consort of the archangel Samael.
3. She is the mother of all demons and spends eternity giving birth (some people say that she was also cursed to lose 100 offspring a day, but I don't know where this idea comes from).
4. She is the dark feminine archetype, the consort of Lucifer (who, when joined together form Baphomet or the goat of Mendes).

This is honestly only a tiny amount of Lilith's history and only a few of her possible identities. Personally I think she's a fascinating character, though pouring through the masses of lore behind her is enough to overload the brain!

I dont quite follow, the highligted parts indicate you are linking her to lucifer and satan?

 

[Erebus]

1.Is Lucifer and satan somehow 'related'.



2.I dont quite follow, the highligted parts indicate you are linking her to lucifer and satan?

1.Lucifer and Satan are sometimes thought of as being seperate entities entirely while occasionally they are thought of as being different aspects of the same entity. It depends on who you ask really as the LHP tends to encourage followers to establish their own opinions on these types of things and for the most part every LHPer will have a slightly different viewpoint

2. Yes she has been linked to both Lucifer and Satan over the years (bear in mind though that sometimes Lucifer and Satan are considered to be the same being) as well as taking various other forms. Like I said her history is incredibly convoluted and she has been used as a character in various poems and dramas which further complicates things.
Though I don't normally like Wikipedia the article on Lilith gives a pretty good overview of her and is mostly accurate.

Lilith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There's the link for you if you're interested

 

[EtuMalku]

I guess I have no idea why my posts were removed on another thread in this forum nor how this forum works . . . so here goes:

The word Lucifer is found in only one place in the Bible -- Isaiah 14:12 -- but only in the King James and related versions: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! . . ."

The New Revised Standard Version translates the same passage as "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, Son of Dawn!"

In other translations we find: "O shining star of the dawn!" (Moffatt) or "O morning-star, son of the dawn!" (Hebrew Bible).

The King James Version is based on the Vulgate, the Latin translation of Jerome. Jerome translated the Hebrew helel (bright or brilliant one) as "lucifer," which was a reasonable Latin equivalent. And yet it is this lucifer, the bright one or lightbearer, that came to be understood by so many as the name for Satan, Lord of Darkness.

Lucifer is not an Adversary as the word Satan (Shaiten) describes
Lucifer is the 'Bringer of Light' in other words Lux Lucis (Lucifer) is gnosis, truth and Divine knowledge.

Lucifer makes His debut in the Testaments as the Serpent in the Garden of Eden pointing out to Eve that God is a liar and you will not die if you eat of the fruit of knowledge, which she did and did not die.

The term Lucifer in fourth century Latin was a name for Venus, especially as the morning star. The Latin word Lucifer is composed of two words: lux, or in the genitive form used lucis, (meaning "light") and ferre, which means "to bear" or "to bring." So, the word Lucifer means bearer of light or light bringer. The same word is used in other places in the Latin Vulgate to translate Hebrew terms that mean "bright," especially associated with the sky:

Babylonian religion was an astral religion, closely related to Canaanite practices, although more focused on the sun, moon, and stars and their motion than on the immediate cycles of nature as it was in Canaan. The Babylonians worshiped as gods the manifestations of celestial bodies. It is from Babylon that we get the signs of the Zodiac representing the constellations. We now know that the two terms used in the Hebrew text of Isaiah, Helel, morning star, and Shahar, dawn, were Babylonian astral deities (which is reflected in most modern translations).


Satan is a personification of the Judaic word al-satan or ha-satan (who borrowed it from the Persians' Shaiten) meaning adversary. The word is used more as a descriptive noun or pronoun. A fallen tree preventing a husband from getting to his injured wife would be considered a tree of shaiten, more or less.

Shaiten did not become Satan until much later where Jewish sects / tribes particularly the Essenes who began referring to anyone not an Essene as the Shaiten. Still further on the Roman Christian church decided it was time to personify Shaiten into Satan and have Him become the scapegoat for all evil in the Christian world.

All in all both Lucifer & Satan are metaphors that became archetypes and eventually personified, there are no Lucifer or Satan beings.

Whether they are constructs / thoughtforms of your mind is another story

 

[averageJOE]

EtuMalku made a great post! It should answer the questions you have.

I'd like to illustrate a few points on what I believe Satan is:

When someone punches you in the face and you instictivly punch them back.
When two people (including husband/wife and boyfriend/girlfriend) lust over one another and act on that lust.
When a person believes that they need to love, respect, and understand themselves first before anyone else can.
When a person believes that this life is the most imoprtant thing and should be ultimatly cherished.
When someone believes that they should be the best person they can be without limitations so long as they do not hurt or interfer with others.
When somone believes that they take control of their own lives and not leave it into the "hands" of a supernatural.
When someone believes that love is the most powerful and intense emotions and should strongly direct it towards those who deserve it, and not wasted on your enemies.

I believe in all these things.

 

[EtuMalku]

LaVeyan Satanism is a religion founded in 1966 by Anton Szandor LaVey. Its teachings are based on individualism, self-indulgence, and "eye for an eye" morality. Unlike Theistic Satanists, LaVeyan Satanists are atheists, agnostics, and Deists who regard Satan as a symbol of man's inherent nature.

Modern Satanism is the observance and practice of Satanic religious beliefs, philosophies and customs. In this interpretation of Satanism, the Satanist does not worship Satan in the theistic sense, but is an adversary to all spiritual creeds, espousing hedonism, materialism, Randian Objectivism, antinomianism, rational egoism, individualism, suitheism, Nietzschean and some Crowleyan philosophy and anti-theism.

Of course there still many belief systems that still embrace the Theistic Satan like the Abrahamic religions.

 

[dragynfly0515]

When somone believes that they take control of their own lives and not leave it into the "hands" of a supernatural.
When someone believes that love is the most powerful and intense emotions and should strongly direct it towards those who deserve it, and not wasted on your enemies.

I strongly agree with these points. I would also like to add that in ritual I identify Lucifer with the Air and East, while Satan I identify with Fire and South.

:candle:
Crys

 

[Valor]

Is Lucifer and Satan somehow 'related'.

To make it sweet, in the story of the Bible Lucifer is Gods most beautiful angel... but once he questioned the word of God he was cast down to earth and branded the adversary. (Satan)

 

[Usagikitti]

Lucifer was the most beautiful and second only to Jesus in God's eyes. When he grew jealous and tried to overthrow God and got himself and his band of rebel angels kicked out of heaven he no longer was Lucifer - he became Satan, the deceiver and hater of God. He is still beautiful which makes him all that more powerful in his deceitfulness. No one follows or is duped by an ugly person.

As for what happened to him after the fall, well he is working his plan in the background and shadows - he doesn't have to do his dirty work in the light of day when he has plenty of people who are more than happy to do it for him. They are scrabbling for money, power, glory and he is sitting back laughing his arse off at their stupidity. All the temporary desires of your heart that leave you feeling empty and longing for more are his folly - his addictions. Think about it.

Never heard about him having a bride or woman and actually since angels are neither male or female don't really think he needs one. We say he because it is just easier to assign a gender to a thing instead of saying he/she or it all the time. And the bible was written during an age where men were predominantly held high as authority. There is no male or female in heaven - God is not male or female, but since there is a shortage of good fathers here down on earth, it was wise of him to have made sure the bible was written that way - we all need a good dad right now.

I think that about wraps it up. I think this was a truly insightful question and applaud you for having the guts to ask it. Bravo.

 

[Valor]

He is still beautiful which makes him all that more powerful in his deceitfulness. No one follows or is duped by an ugly person.
.

No, In the story of the bible, once cast down to earth he was no longer beautiful. This is when he received, as punishment, the horns, tail, brimstone flesh, ect...ect... so on and so forth.

 

[Usagikitti]

No, In the story of the bible, once cast down to earth he was no longer beautiful. This is when he received, as punishment, the horns, tail, brimstone flesh, ect...ect... so on and so forth.

???

um do you have the scripture on that, because when I looked in my bible I didn't see any passages that stated anything of the kind. So I mean, if you could give me the passages I would greatly appreciate it cuz I am all up for learning new stuff. :angel2:

 

[Werden]

I am neither particularly a Satanist of any variety nor Luciferian, however since this is an area of connected interest of mine I thought I'd offer this bit. For those interested in different perspectives on Satan and Lucifer from esoteric/mystical/myth you may want to look into the Faternitas Saturni's (Brotherhood of Saturn's) ideas and mythologizing/cosmology concerning the juxtaposition of Saturn with Satan/Lucifer. It is a rather interesting take on the matter, especially with various other developments in religious and magical trends throughout the previous century.

These can be seen in Stephen Flower's Lords of the Left-Hand Path, pp. 147-153 and also in his commentary on and translation of various early papers from the FS as seen in THE FRATERNITAS SATURNI or Brotherhood of Saturn, Runa-Raven (I originally read the first edition as Fire & Ice (Llewellyn) and have not read the updated Runa-Raven edition).

Just some thoughts as their conception of this, as we have available to us, is quite intriguing if nothing else.

Note: these studies were made on work which became available on the F.S. around the middle of the 20th century CE after it had already apparently been restructured, so their modern views may vary from the views presented by their older documents.

Xeper!
- Werden -