Diplomatic Immunity?

[oldbadger]

It's being reported here that a US Diplomat's wife was involved in a fatal road traffic accident in late August this year, and that although she communicated to the police that she had no plans to leave the UK, it seems that she has been given clearance to leave the UK, probably because she had the status of 'Diplomatic Immunity' in Britain.

Our Newspapers cannot even mention her name.

I expect that Diplomatic Immunity for the Worlds' Diplomats is absolutely essential, but IF a country's diplomat or their family members are found to have caused any tort or offence then I wonder if the country itself might provide restitution and pursue any offenders for embarrassment caused?

Please 'copy-paste' these links in to google, and then you'll see that most UK papers have covered this story.

US › News › UK › Crime
10 hours ago - The wife of a US diplomat has claimed diplomatic immunity to leave the UK after she became a suspect in a police investigation into a fatal car crash. US officials said immunity was rarely waived, having ignored pleas from Dominic Raab, the foreign secretary, for the country to ...

NBC News - Breaking News & Top Stories - Latest World, US & Local News › news › world › u-s-diplomat-s-spouse-who-w...
11 hours ago - Neither the name of the spouse nor the U.S. diplomat has been released. The incident involved 19-year-old Harry Dunn, who died in a collision ...

 

[Sunstone]

It is possible she was kicked out of your country by your government and that the news media is being incompetent in suggesting she left voluntarily. A common punishment for people with immunity who commit crimes is to kick them out of the country. Very common.

 

[Jedster]

Well then, this immediately comes to mind

 

[Augustus]

I expect that Diplomatic Immunity for the Worlds' Diplomats is absolutely essential, but IF a country's diplomat or their family members are found to have caused any tort or offence then I wonder if the country itself might provide restitution and pursue any offenders for embarrassment caused?

The country sponsoring the diplomat can revoke their immunity at any time they want.

 

[Notthedarkweb]

Likely that they'll be tried in the US under federal law tbh

The country sponsoring the diplomat can revoke their immunity at any time they want.

 

[Augustus]

Likely that they'll be tried in the US under federal law tbh

Is that possible under US law?

Can people be charged in the US for crimes committed overseas, especially as unintentionally killing someone in an accident through negligence isn't a particularly serious offence?

 

[oldbadger]

Is that possible under US law?

Can people be charged in the US for crimes committed overseas, especially as unintentionally killing someone in an accident through negligence isn't a particularly serious offence?

Not serious?

 

[Augustus]

Not serious?

In the sense that it doesn't usually result in a long prison sentence unless you are being extremely reckless like driving at 150mph while drunk (and there were no mentions of extreme recklessness in the story).

 

[Notthedarkweb]

Is that possible under US law?

Can people be charged in the US for crimes committed overseas, especially as unintentionally killing someone in an accident through negligence isn't a particularly serious offence?

It is, but will they?

 

[sooda]

The country sponsoring the diplomat can revoke their immunity at any time they want.

The Trump administration refused.

 

[sooda]

Is that possible under US law?

Can people be charged in the US for crimes committed overseas, especially as unintentionally killing someone in an accident through negligence isn't a particularly serious offence?

The only US law I know of has to do with child sex tourism.

 

[oldbadger]

In the sense that it doesn't usually result in a long prison sentence unless you are being extremely reckless like driving at 150mph while drunk (and there were no mentions of extreme recklessness in the story).

Fair enough.
I'm interested to see how this turns out. I expect that the USA will respond more helpfully than many other countries.... let's see

 

[Augustus]

I'm interested to see how this turns out. I expect that the USA will respond more helpfully than many other countries.... let's see

Diplomatic immunity is very rarely waived, and I'd imagine the US is among the least likely to oblige in this regard for reasons of national prestige. Also even less likely for an unintentional incident such as this with no real downside to refusing.

 

[oldbadger]

Diplomatic immunity is very rarely waived, and I'd imagine the US is among the least likely to oblige in this regard for reasons of national prestige. Also even less likely for an unintentional incident such as this with no real downside to refusing.

I don't know any details of the car-crash incident and so cannot guess how serious it is, but if the woman involved was in any way the cause of death in a car-crash, that is serious here.

The Chief Constable of Norfolk has sent a letter to the US Embassy, requesting the lifting of the woman's immunity.

Thing is, if that driver was covered by Insurance, then to give evidence to a Court for a Judgement so that an Insurer can make any required financial restitution would be the proper and prestigious thing to do. To run away could only be regarded as a low thing to do here.

Let's see how this turns out......

 

[oldbadger]

Diplomatic immunity is very rarely waived, and I'd imagine the US is among the least likely to oblige in this regard for reasons of national prestige. Also even less likely for an unintentional incident such as this with no real downside to refusing.

Update.....
The US driver is believed to be Ann Secoolas, and the BBC reports that pressure is now building for Mrs Secoolas to return here so that she may be questioned about the road traffic accident in Northampton which left a young motorcyclist dead.

 

[Augustus]

The Chief Constable of Norfolk has sent a letter to the US Embassy, requesting the lifting of the woman's immunity.

The problem is that countries do not want their diplomats and their families to fear prosecution otherwise they become open to blackmail for things they have (or perhaps haven't) done.

If you knew you/your wife/your daughter was facing a jail sentence, and were offered an easy quid-pro-quo to prevent this, that might be very tempting.

So it doesn't really matter what they are alleged to have done, it generally isn't in the national interest to waive immunity as this sets a bad precedent (although they may make rare exceptions for particularly egregious crimes or when diplomatic relations could be seriously damaged).

 

[Mock Turtle]

In the sense that it doesn't usually result in a long prison sentence unless you are being extremely reckless like driving at 150mph while drunk (and there were no mentions of extreme recklessness in the story).

Apart from driving on the wrong side of the road (coming out later)! Fleeing will not turn out well for her I suspect.

 

[oldbadger]

The problem is that countries do not want their diplomats and their families to fear prosecution otherwise they become open to blackmail for things they have (or perhaps haven't) done.

If you knew you/your wife/your daughter was facing a jail sentence, and were offered an easy quid-pro-quo to prevent this, that might be very tempting.

So it doesn't really matter what they are alleged to have done, it generally isn't in the national interest to waive immunity as this sets a bad precedent (although they may make rare exceptions for particularly egregious crimes or when diplomatic relations could be seriously damaged).

That was interesting.......
Your ideas about how I might react are strange to me.

Let's see how the United States of America responds to the Chief Constable's letter of request.

 

[Shad]

It's being reported here that a US Diplomat's wife was involved in a fatal road traffic accident in late August this year, and that although she communicated to the police that she had no plans to leave the UK, it seems that she has been given clearance to leave the UK, probably because she had the status of 'Diplomatic Immunity' in Britain.

Our Newspapers cannot even mention her name.

I expect that Diplomatic Immunity for the Worlds' Diplomats is absolutely essential, but IF a country's diplomat or their family members are found to have caused any tort or offence then I wonder if the country itself might provide restitution and pursue any offenders for embarrassment caused?

Please 'copy-paste' these links in to google, and then you'll see that most UK papers have covered this story.

US › News › UK › Crime
10 hours ago - The wife of a US diplomat has claimed diplomatic immunity to leave the UK after she became a suspect in a police investigation into a fatal car crash. US officials said immunity was rarely waived, having ignored pleas from Dominic Raab, the foreign secretary, for the country to ...

NBC News - Breaking News & Top Stories - Latest World, US & Local News › news › world › u-s-diplomat-s-spouse-who-w...
11 hours ago - Neither the name of the spouse nor the U.S. diplomat has been released. The incident involved 19-year-old Harry Dunn, who died in a collision ...

In my view it should only apply to those representing a government not their families and anyone the rep brings on their field trip.

 

[oldbadger]

In my view it should only apply to those representing a government not their families and anyone the rep brings on their field trip.

Fair enough.
But in some 'risky' countries a diplomat's family does need special protection, either that or they stay home and safe.
But here in Blightly families are fairly safe from our wicked government.

Our PM is going to appeal to Washington.