Discovered or Invented?

[Heyo]

The question whether forms and numbers are discovered or invented is ages old and philosophy hasn't come around to answer that definitively.
But this is not about forms and numbers, it's about gods.
In science everything is discovered. It starts with an observation goes over a phase of hypothesis, experiments and refinements and ends in a theory if there was anything to the primal observation.
It's not so easy with abstract objects and most of them are invented but some are commonly accepted as if they were real. money, nations, borders for example.

So, with that in mind, what do you think how gods came to be in our focus? Are there any observations that led to formulating a god as a hypothesis? Or did someone just invent a god?

 

[Rival]

Gods are discovered through experience.

 

[Heyo]

Gods are discovered through experience.

So, by observing inner states instead of the external world? That would explain why no two descriptions of the gods are identical as the inner states of different persons are widely individual.

 

[Rival]

So, by observing inner states instead of the external world? That would explain why no two descriptions of the gods are identical as the inner states of different persons are widely individual.

The outside world leads to experiences. Most places have storm Gods, for example. Many cultures match local Gods to Gods from other places, like saying Thunor is Mars. Mary Gods share similar qualities across cultures.

 

[SalixIncendium]

If philosophy cannot answer if forms and numbers were invented or discovered, I don't see how it's possible to answer, from a philosophical standpoint, how gods would be any different.

I find it interesting that after reading the thread title and poll, my mind automatically went to mathematics, comparing gods to numbers in this capacity before I even read the OP. Numbers, forms, and gods, as I see it, are all items that help one to understand one's own nature and the nature of one's reality.

Therefore, until such time that philosophy can answer whether numbers and forms were invented or discovered, I think it's impossible to arrive at a definitive answer to the poll question.

That said, I'm going to bring in a third option: "revealed." I think "revealed" might be a better descriptor for how gods (and numbers/forms for that matter) came to be.

Great thread topic, by the way!

 

[Estro Felino]

Theological concepts are invented to explain what the human mind can understand with the instruments of reason and logic, and also other dogmas which make sense to humans.
So I would say both.

 

[ChristineM]

I believe they were invented to help explain what people couldn't understand about nature.

 

[Colt]

I would say naturally invented then discovred. Fear(s) lead to the development of evolved religion which was the "scaffolding" of the reception of revealed religion.



"The evolutionary picture of human existence begins and ends with religion, albeit very different qualities of religion, one evolutional and biological, the other revelational and periodical. And so, while religion is normal and natural to man, it is also optional. Man does not have to be religious against his will." UB 1955

 

[Rival]

I believe they were invented to help explain what people couldn't understand about nature.

There are also other things, such as the 'daimon/demon' concept of the Greeks, which seems to refer to a conscience, but it is understood as a separate being. We also seem to see this with the 'muses', which we would just called inspiration. A lot of ancient people seemed to believe that things we understand to come from within, came from without, such as music, poetry, art etc. They seemed to believe it was given to them from elsewhere. I find this fascinating.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I voted "Invented" although I would have preferred "Inferred."

 

[Quintessence]

This isn't an either-or question, but everything starts with human experience, as @Rival said. The gods and religion in general are a response to the human experiences of life and living, along with encountering powers greater than themselves. When we look at the most globally and historically pervasive theologies in history - yes, I'm talking about Paganisms and indigenous religions - their gods are all connected to the observable and experienceable world of humanity. Not just what we would refer to as "nature" (e.g., things like Sun and Moon as gods) but also social constructs (e.g., things like Justice) and emotional states (e.g., things like Love). Deification permits entering into a sacred relationship with aspects of our world and reconciling our challenges with them in a different light.

That relationship bit, though? That's where invention comes into play, though it's a bit of an odd word for it. While the gods are a thing all on their own, how we go about navigating that relationship and understanding the other person is something of a construct of an "invention" if you prefer. For example, someone who is easily sunburnt might develop a different relationship and associations with the divinity of Sun than someone who doesn't. It can become personal.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Realizing how small one is compared to the source.

 

[Stevicus]

The question whether forms and numbers are discovered or invented is ages old and philosophy hasn't come around to answer that definitively.
But this is not about forms and numbers, it's about gods.
In science everything is discovered. It starts with an observation goes over a phase of hypothesis, experiments and refinements and ends in a theory if there was anything to the primal observation.
It's not so easy with abstract objects and most of them are invented but some are commonly accepted as if they were real. money, nations, borders for example.

So, with that in mind, what do you think how gods came to be in our focus? Are there any observations that led to formulating a god as a hypothesis? Or did someone just invent a god?

I imagine it could have started from simple observations of nature without really knowing where it comes from or how it happens. If you see the sun up in the sky and don't really know what it is or what it's doing there, you might try to imagine it as some kind of "being." If you're in a thunderstorm or feel a heavy wind, you don't know what's happening and imagine that "someone" may be causing it. I wouldn't say gods were "invented," but perhaps the result of millennia of speculation by early humans trying to make some sort of sense out of reality and nature.

 

[Link]

I voted other, because I believing anything posing as a god is most likely a Satanic Jinn. They may even think of themselves as Angels, but they are not on the right side.

Just as we wouldn't simply believe in anyone claiming to be a guide in the outward world, I believe vigilance is required for the inner world as well. That is not to say these beings don't help but just like we can gain worldly goals through people here, the same is true of these beings.

Satan believes he is right still. Keeping that in mind will help give mental clarity about the spiritual divisions.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I voted other, because I believing anything posing as a god is most likely a Satanic Jinn. They may even think of themselves as Angels, but they are not on the right side.

Where would be the logic in anyone posing as a god think of themselves as an Angel? And if they were Satanic, the would, of course, be on the left side.

 

[Rival]

I imagine it could have started from simple observations of nature without really knowing where it comes from or how it happens. If you see the sun up in the sky and don't really know what it is or what it's doing there, you might try to imagine it as some kind of "being." If you're in a thunderstorm or feel a heavy wind, you don't know what's happening and imagine that "someone" may be causing it. I wouldn't say gods were "invented," but perhaps the result of millennia of speculation by early humans trying to make some sort of sense out of reality and nature.

It's not so much 'imagining' as being one with, not seeing oneself as an individual apart from everything else. We know that in non-literature cultures (i.e., 99% of human history, especially everyone who noticed Gods) see the world very differently. Ancient people often see things as living that newer cultures see as inanimate, such as clouds, planets, rocks and sediments. The idea is that the whole universe and everything in it is alive and in some way conscious. The Sun is therefore alive and in a way choosing to do what it does. Our Mediaeval idea of the ordered, clockwork universe is surprisingly modern and not until Newton did we discover laws as we know them.

 

[Link]

Where would be the logic in anyone posing as a god think of themselves as an Angel? And if they were Satanic, the would, of course, be on the left side.

It's the case that bad people usually believe they are good. They do mischief in the earth but see themselves as fixing it. It's the same with the hidden beings (Jinn). The evil think they are good.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I believe they were invented to help explain what people couldn't understand about nature.

That's the truth of the matter.

 

[YoursTrue]

The question whether forms and numbers are discovered or invented is ages old and philosophy hasn't come around to answer that definitively.
But this is not about forms and numbers, it's about gods.
In science everything is discovered. It starts with an observation goes over a phase of hypothesis, experiments and refinements and ends in a theory if there was anything to the primal observation.
It's not so easy with abstract objects and most of them are invented but some are commonly accepted as if they were real. money, nations, borders for example.

So, with that in mind, what do you think how gods came to be in our focus? Are there any observations that led to formulating a god as a hypothesis? Or did someone just invent a god?

After looking at your question, thinking about it and seeing other posts, I have a question. Would you know if any newly discovered gods been spoken about lately?

 

[Quintessence]

After looking at your question, thinking about it and seeing other posts, I have a question. Would you know if any newly discovered gods been spoken about lately?

It happens in Pagan circles, but I'm not particularly connected to the community these days so I can't speak much to the broader community sentiment or trends.

Personally, I really do not concern myself with whether the gods I worship are "old" or "new" - that doesn't matter to me. My relationship with the gods isn't dictated by how "old" or "new" they are. I mean, yeah, I guess things like the Spirit of Corn are "new" relatively speaking since domesticated corn is only a few thousand years old. Compare that to Spirit of Sky which has been here for ... when was it Earth's atmosphere formed? A few billion years ago? I forget - I don't really study the creation mythos that often as a "here and now" sort of practitioner.