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Discussing Hinduism

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
You are just too full of contradictions to be discussing Hinduism: how can a Brahmin be a secularist of any description?
Wikipedia may enlighten you,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_India
Secularism in India means equal treatment of all religions by the state. Unlike the Western concept of secularism which envisions a separation of religion and state, the concept of secularism in India envisions acceptance of religious laws as binding on the state, and equal participation of state in different religions.[1][2]

A brahmana (see older texts) is anyone whose primary aim in life is to understand the essence of truth in reality. There have been Brahmin atheists (like Vidyasagar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishwar_Chandra_Vidyasagar) and secular Brahmin monists like Rabindranath Tagore.I have no sympathy for the birth based caste system, but since my cultural background does mean that I have had more exposure to classical Indian thought than many of my fellow Hindus, I do want to aid in the dissemination of the many important thoughts on religion, ethics and philosophy that they have to a broader audience (no longer based on birthright) and to promote a new renaissance in the study and further development of classical Indian thought. I have benefited significantly by reading them, and I think many would feel the same way if they have access.
 

Shantanu

Well-Known Member
Wikipedia may enlighten you,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_India
Secularism in India means equal treatment of all religions by the state. Unlike the Western concept of secularism which envisions a separation of religion and state, the concept of secularism in India envisions acceptance of religious laws as binding on the state, and equal participation of state in different religions.[1][2]

A brahmana (see older texts) is anyone whose primary aim in life is to understand the essence of truth in reality. There have been Brahmin atheists (like Vidyasagar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishwar_Chandra_Vidyasagar) and secular Brahmin monists like Rabindranath Tagore.I have no sympathy for the birth based caste system, but since my cultural background does mean that I have had more exposure to classical Indian thought than many of my fellow Hindus, I do want to aid in the dissemination of the many important thoughts on religion, ethics and philosophy that they have to a broader audience (no longer based on birthright) and to promote a new renaissance in the study and further development of classical Indian thought. I have benefited significantly by reading them, and I think many would feel the same way if they have access.
The Brahmin is a priestly caste in Vedic India whose role in society is to offer ritualistic offerings to the deities that rule the heavens. Those who abandon the Vedic concept of social stratification and do not chant the appropriate verses in their daily lives to conform to the needs of the Vedic society lose their right to be called a Brahmin and are immediately demoted to the Shudra caste.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The Brahmin is a priestly caste in Vedic India whose role in society is to offer ritualistic offerings to the deities that rule the heavens. Those who abandon the Vedic concept of social stratification and do not chant the appropriate verses in their daily lives to conform to the needs of the Vedic society lose their right to be called a Brahmin and are immediately demoted to the Shudra caste.
This is not a debate forum and I will not debate this issue (totally unrelated to my OP) further. You are free to believe whatever you want. Thank you.
 

Satyamavejayanti

Well-Known Member
"sayak83, post: 4617888, member: 37415"]

Namaste,

I know that Ramayana is well loved in Hinduism and in many places is the most liked book among all Hindu books. But the fact is, I prefer and know the Mahabharata far better Ramayana. I know the story of course and have read the Valmiki version, but it does not create as much impact in me as Mahabharata does. So, while I do not deny Ramayana's importance and will certainly mention that fact, I am unable to make the story come alive in the same way I can do for Mahabharata.

That is understandable, please don't take it that I wanted your group to focus only on Ramayana, this was not my intent. I did not want this thread to go astray as it has, sorry for that. I only thought that while discussing Hinduism and especially with people who may not be familiar with it, it is a good idea to advise that Hinduism is largely a practice rather then just textual dogmatism like many other faiths. And to make a point that even the texts and stories are re-interpreted to suit the individual communities and cultures while still retaining the Dharmic value. I just want to suggest to emphasize Dharma and its contextual nature and how different Hindu communities take away different ideas from the various texts rather then just reading from a book, and i gave a Fijian-Indian-Hindu perspective to spice things up a bit. I would like people who don't know much about my tradition to at least grasp the importance and validity of Hinduism to the actual practitioner and focus on the positive points rather then bombard them with the negatives.

But this is entirely up to you to decide which direction you want to take.

[QUOTE I will be honest, I am critical about how Rama treats Sita and while he may have been an ideal king, its difficult to see how he could have successfully discharged his duties as a husband to his wife and as a father to his sons given that he exiled Sita in pregnant condition. How is this dharma? ......but to exile your pregnant wife due to mere suspicion and public opinion? I would like to know what Ramayana says about this matter and what you think about it.[/QUOTE]

Well as far as i know the Valmiki Ramayana does not have a specific opinion on this issue, it just narrates the episode, I have heard (from a family member, although have not read it myself) that in Tulsidas version Rama is portrayed as failing in this area, that this act was portrayed as "WTF How could he do this, Burn Sita just because of people talking and thinking ill of Him", kind of episode. even in the Thai version this is portrayed as a bad decision by Rama where all the Deva come together to set things right.

Now from a Practitioners view, Yes Rama is viewed as wrong and failing his duties in this context, but there is a lesson in this as well, that when being a person of honor where your word and promises cannot be broken, any person even a Avatar is liable to being too rash and unreasonable, we see the same with BhismaPitamba in the Mahabharata. The lesson that being tooo right, tooo principled are an extreme that lead to unreasonable and Adharmic acts, so try to be like Rama but don't make the same mistakes as he did.

This is why Ramayana and Mahabharata is classified as Ithihas, not Shruti.

You see in Hinduism we learn by observation of people and characters in society or from people in some authority position, but there is always the advise to be conscious of our own Karma, to not blindly follow, that is why we are not a text based tradition, this is to allow the freedom to think for our self in such matters and make our own decisions.

Every action of Rama or Any Avatara or Human must be in accordance to Dharmah, their Karma must be viewed taking into context the situation, time and place, then if we whish to apply these to our life, we should take into our own contexts and situation.

Hope this helps,

Dhanyavad
 
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sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Namaste,



That is understandable, please don't take it that I wanted your group to focus only on Ramayana, this was not my intent. I did not want this thread to go astray as it has, sorry for that. I only thought that while discussing Hinduism and especially with people who may not be familiar with it, it is a good idea to advise that Hinduism is largely a practice rather then just textual dogmatism like many other faiths. And to make a point that even the texts and stories are re-interpreted to suit the individual communities and cultures while still retaining the Dharmic value. I just want to suggest to emphasize Dharma and its contextual nature and how different Hindu communities take away different ideas from the various texts rather then just reading from a book, and i gave a Fijian-Indian-Hindu perspective to spice things up a bit. I would like people who don't know much about my tradition to at least grasp the importance and validity of Hinduism to the actual practitioner and focus on the positive points rather then bombard them with the negatives.

But this is entirely up to you to decide which direction you want to take.



Well as far as i know the Valmiki Ramayana does not have a specific opinion on this issue, it just narrates the episode, I have heard (from a family member, although have not read it myself) that in Tulsidas version Rama is portrayed as failing in this area, that this act was portrayed as "WTF How could he do this, Burn Sita just because of people talking and thinking ill of Him", kind of episode. even in the Thai version this is portrayed as a bad decision by Rama where all the Deva come together to set things right.

Now from a Practitioners view, Yes Rama is viewed as wrong and failing his duties in this context, but there is a lesson in this as well, that when being a person of honor where your word and promises cannot be broken, any person even a Avatar is liable to being too rash and unreasonable, we see the same with BhismaPitamba in the Mahabharata. The lesson that being tooo right, tooo principled are an extreme that lead to unreasonable and Adharmic acts, so try to be like Rama but don't make the same mistakes as he did.

This is why Ramayana and Mahabharata is classified as Ithihas, not Shruti.

You see in Hinduism we learn by observation of people and characters in society or from people in some authority position, but there is always the advise to be conscious of our own Karma, to not blindly follow, that is why we are not a text based tradition, this is to allow the freedom to think for our self in such matters and make our own decisions.

Every action of Rama or Any Avatara or Human must be in accordance to Dharmah, their Karma must be viewed taking into context the situation, time and place, then if we whish to apply these to our life, we should take into our own contexts and situation.

Hope this helps,

Dhanyavad
I liked your reply a lot! Hope to have more discussions with you. Your and my view of how to think about Hinduism are very much aligned.
 
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