Dislike and distrust of atheists?

[Valjean]

Most Thiests stake their entire life upon the so called evidence of another person that lived thousands of years ago that cannot be proved using commonly accepted terms, but the Athiest does the same thing buy simply denying any proof ever existed. Neither one has a single ounce of substance to support their claim! An Athiest is like those who said it's impossible to reach the speed of sound because a horse cannot gallop fast enough.... how stupid is that! An optimist exceeded the speed of sound!

Most atheists aren't making any claims, and there really is no empirical evidence for God.
Atheists are just withholding belief pending convincing evidence, just as I assume you would do with a claim of six legged geese in the wilds of Southeast Asia.

 

[Cobol]

99% of human society has never seen the United States. The US is less than 300 years old. How does a species that goes back maybe 100,000 years judge what has occurred in one nation on one continent in 3 centuries?

Over 95% of the founders, and 90% of the framers of this country were theists (mostly Christian), of course that would influence the character of a young nation. Don't worry, since the secular hippies rebelled in the 50's the country is now too far in debt to ever get out, the greatest country in the history of mankind has committed liberal secular suicide.

Who speaks for Americans? Me, you, Lincoln, Jefferson, Franklin, the 300,000 Christians that died to free another race of men?

With the exception of a possible handful nothing is known to a certainty. Name anything you know for certain.

BTW Christianity grows by the equivalent population of Nevada every year, and perhaps as much as 90% of human kind has held to theological faith. It isn't our side of the fence that is shaky.

The way they have been so far, buying votes, limiting free speech, demanding safe spaces, thinking they are snow flakes, howling about micro aggressions, yelling racism or sexism when someone disagrees with them,and packing courts with judges who defy the constitution.

Did you know that the debt piled up from the birth of the secular revolution has grown so large at present that all the money in existence couldn't pay it off?

The Constitution prohibits:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
---John Adams

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding....
---Thomas Jefferson

We are not now, nor have we ever been, a Christian nation. Our founding fathers explicitly and clearly excluded any reference to “God” or “the Almighty” or any euphemism for a higher power in the Constitution. Not one time is the word “god” mentioned in our founding document. Not one time.

The Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, the Federalist Papers and the Constitution — to disprove that ridiculous religious bias. All four documents unambiguously prove our secular origins.

Our founding fathers understood well the extraordinary danger of mixing religion and politics; we forget that lesson at our great peril. If we forget, just glance over to the Middle East.

That frightening majority has forgotten our history, ignored our founding principles and abandoned our most cherished ideal of separating church and state. In mixing religion and politics, the religious subverts both. And the world suffers.

 

[Quintessence]

Human society has long declared high rates of secular phobia the irrational dislike, distrust, fear, or hatred of nonreligious people within America.

Could you elaborate on what "high rates" are? Do you have some data we can look at? A citation, perhaps? What about comparing this to the perception of other minority groups in the same geographic area (the United States)?

Atheist parents have been denied custody rights in the wake of a divorce. It's illegal for an atheist to hold public office in seven states. Charity donations are rejected when offered by secularist organizations.There is no question that atheists, agnostics, secularists, and others who eschew religion are widely disliked.

What do you mean by "widely disliked?" What is the number you'd associate with that? Again, I'd like to see some data. Maybe the ACLU has some data like this we could look at? I'm aware that there are problems with things like custody battles for many religious minorities in my country, but I have not seen anything in the way of a statistical analysis of frequencies and stuff like that. Closest thing I have run across is this, which is pretty interesting if you all have the time to take a look at it: Trends in Global Restrictions on Religion

Americans equate lack of religiosity in general with being immoral and un-American.

We do? I must have missed the memo. What is up with all these memos I am missing lately? Clearly I am missing out on the indoctrination meetings...

People simply feel much more comfortable expressing their dislike for atheists than other minority groups.

They do? Do you have some data for this?

Insecurity on the part of the religious.

It is? Since when? Do you have any data for this?

In order for religions to survive, it requires a lot of social support: the more people who share it, the easier it is to maintain, and anyone who rejects faith, or calls it into question, is a threat.

I suppose that's applicable for some models of religion. It certainly is not for mine.

Atheists have no faith in God, and thus theists are threatened by the growing presence of atheists, as they call into question the very thing that is ever so shaky: religious faith.

Not really. I don't feel threatened by non-theists or the non-religious at all. I do, however, feel threatened by people who say (or more importantly do) things that suggest they want to get rid of me or destroy my way of life or livelihood. I suspect you can empathize with that.

How can secular folks contend with this disadvantageous position?

Seems to me it boils down to "don't be a jerk." As one minority speaking to another, just don't be a jerk. Set a good example, be an honorable person. Take care with the social circles you cultivate. Don't waste time on haters. Though sometimes, it can be worth the time to extend an open palm even to them. Speaking venom about others, as has already been pointed out, is a surefire way of making one's position as a minority more... uh... tenuous.

 

[Cobol]

Could you elaborate on what "high rates" are? Do you have some data we can look at? A citation, perhaps? What about comparing this to the perception of other minority groups in the same geographic area (the United States)?



What do you mean by "widely disliked?" What is the number you'd associate with that? Again, I'd like to see some data. Maybe the ACLU has some data like this we could look at? I'm aware that there are problems with things like custody battles for many religious minorities in my country, but I have not seen anything in the way of a statistical analysis of frequencies and stuff like that. Closest thing I have run across is this, which is pretty interesting if you all have the time to take a look at it: Trends in Global Restrictions on Religion



We do? I must have missed the memo. What is up with all these memos I am missing lately? Clearly I am missing out on the indoctrination meetings...



They do? Do you have some data for this?



It is? Since when? Do you have any data for this?



I suppose that's applicable for some models of religion. It certainly is not for mine.



Not really. I don't feel threatened by non-theists or the non-religious at all. I do, however, feel threatened by people who say (or more importantly do) things that suggest they want to get rid of me or destroy my way of life or livelihood. I suspect you can empathize with that.



Seems to me it boils down to "don't be a jerk." As one minority speaking to another, just don't be a jerk. Set a good example, be an honorable person. Take care with the social circles you cultivate. Don't waste time on haters. Though sometimes, it can be worth the time to extend an open palm even to them. Speaking venom about others, as has already been pointed out, is a surefire way of making one's position as a minority more... uh... tenuous.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Sociology_of_"atheism_is_un-American"_view/
Views on atheists - Conservapedia
secularphobia - Skeptical Science
Why Americans Hate Atheists
AtheophobiaA Prejudice Thousands of Years Old
http://whithereudaimonia.com/2012/01/13/atheophobia-the-fear-of-atheists/
Why Do So Many Believers Think Atheists Are Worse Than Rapists?
http://mobile.wnd.com/2016/11/why-an-atheist-wont-be-elected-president/
It's Not Me, It's You: Is The "Angry Atheist" Stereotype A Product Of Christian Insecurity?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/more-mortal/201510/five-reasons-people-dont-atheists
http://seanmcdowell.org/blog/why-are-christians-so-defensive

I personally find Druids to be harmless, eccentric and non threatening.

 

[Quintessence]

Cool... I'll have to look through those to see if they link to any academic studies. I'm that kind of nerd.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Human society has long declared high rates of secular phobia the irrational dislike, distrust, fear, or hatred of nonreligious people within America.

Atheist parents have been denied custody rights in the wake of a divorce. It's illegal for an atheist to hold public office in seven states. Charity donations are rejected when offered by secularist organizations.There is no question that atheists, agnostics, secularists, and others who eschew religion are widely disliked.

Americans equate lack of religiosity in general with being immoral and un-American. People simply feel much more comfortable expressing their dislike for atheists than other minority groups.

Insecurity on the part of the religious. Faith believing claims without sufficient evidence, or claiming to know things that you don’t or can’t know is an increasingly shaky endeavor. In order for religions to survive, it requires a lot of social support: the more people who share it, the easier it is to maintain, and anyone who rejects faith, or calls it into question, is a threat. Atheists have no faith in God, and thus theists are threatened by the growing presence of atheists, as they call into question the very thing that is ever so shaky: religious faith.

How can secular folks contend with this disadvantageous position?

That's not true I know atheists who are non evolutionary and christians who are too. For some reason they want them worship something angels and others straight up considered them animals.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Yet those that actually think people are animals say they do or don't believe in god doesn't matter they seem not to be considered animals!

 

[shmogie]

http://www.conservapedia.com/Sociology_of_"atheism_is_un-American"_view/
Views on atheists - Conservapedia
secularphobia - Skeptical Science
Why Americans Hate Atheists
AtheophobiaA Prejudice Thousands of Years Old
http://whithereudaimonia.com/2012/01/13/atheophobia-the-fear-of-atheists/
Why Do So Many Believers Think Atheists Are Worse Than Rapists?
Why an atheist won’t be elected president
It's Not Me, It's You: Is The "Angry Atheist" Stereotype A Product Of Christian Insecurity?
Five Reasons People Don't Like Atheists
Why Are Christians So Defensive?

I personally find Druids to be harmless, eccentric and non threatening.

You would. Know anything about their history ?

 

[psychoslice]

I believe many religious people don't truly know what they believe, because of this anyone that questions their beliefs is seen as a threat, lets face, it if you truly knew you were 100% right, then why would you even care what others thought about your precious little beliefs ?.

 

[psychoslice]

Yet those that actually think people are animals say they do or don't believe in god doesn't matter they seem not to be considered animals!

We are animals.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

People will accept me for my arguments on their own merits or not accept me at all

Agree emphatically. All we are in a venue like this is our printed words.

 

[Augustus]

It was a result of the humanist influence on Western culture superimposed on older Christian ideas and ways.

Any actual evidence for this?

Gregory of Nyssa was using the Genesis account of creation as an argument that all slavery was inherently sinful in the 4th C.

God said, Let us make man in our own image and likeness. If he is in the likeness of God, and rules the whole earth, and has been granted authority over everything on earth from God, who is his buyer, tell me? Who is his seller?

To God alone belongs this power; or, rather, not even to God himself. For his gracious gifts, it says, are irrevocable. God would not therefore reduce the human race to slavery, since he himself, when we had been enslaved to sin, spontaneously recalled us to freedom.

But if God does not enslave what is free, who is he that sets his own power above God’s?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Truly, if they exist, I have not come across any

Haha... well, isn't it obvious? Aren't you on "the other side of the fence?"

 

[Simurgh]

in the end it's the usual evolutionary imperative. fear what you don't know so that you can survive another day. religious people are vested in the belief that there is some ultimate power that will fix "it" = basically mommy will kiss it better. then there are those without ties to the supernatural and they think we have to fix "it". whatever the "it" is is irrelevant at this point.

if you detest/ignore/hate/distrust/ (add whatever negative term you like) science and the human animal's (yes, we are mammals) ability to discover the facts that explain the makings of our universe, then you will do the same where people who prefer facts to myths are concerned. the tighter someone clings to the fantasies spun by religious authorities, who have built some truly magnificent houses of cards, the more you will fear and hate atheists who simply cannot and will not buy into that belief system.
atheists on the other hand dismiss and laugh about those same houses of cards and their mythical underpinnings because we just cannot understand how anyone can belief stuff without having any proof that any of it is even remotely true.

so we look at each other and think, what the hell is wrong with those people. in the end, what does it matter. it's like football. you hang onto some team, regardless of how they play any given time, because you're a fan and you just cannot believe that all the energy you invested into them was for naught.
......some of us simply prefer chess.... and don't care enough to argue the point, safe in the knowledge that we can drink coffee either way.

if none of this makes sense to you, then you have just discovered the fact that debating the unproveable, while a great rhetorical exercise, is just as pointless.

 

[shmogie]

Haha... well, isn't it obvious? Aren't you on "the other side of the fence?"

Sure, If you mean I am not an atheist, true, but I was for many years. One of my daughters is one. I have never seen, being a believer or not, atheists discriminated against. From my perspective it is an absurd assertion. I am left handed, I have seen more "discrimination" against we 14% of the population than against atheists.In 99% of human interactions, who really cares what someone else believes on a deeply personal and private matter ?

 

[shmogie]

I believe many religious people don't truly know what they believe, because of this anyone that questions their beliefs is seen as a threat, lets face, it if you truly knew you were 100% right, then why would you even care what others thought about your precious little beliefs ?.

Well, I don't care what you think, nor anyone else. No one who questions my beliefs is a threat, a threat of what ? I know EXACTLY what I believe and why I believe it. I'm not even sure why you post this kind of stuff. Are you trying to reinforce the fact that you don't believe ? Why do you need to do that ?

 

[Bill Van Fleet]

Well, I don't care what you think, nor anyone else. No one who questions my beliefs is a threat, a threat of what ? I know EXACTLY what I believe and why I believe it. I'm not even sure why you post this kind of stuff. Are you trying to reinforce the fact that you don't believe ? Why do you need to do that ?

There is value in having others challenge our own beliefs. We know that it is quite possible for a person to be absolutely certain about something which, however, is incorrect. And our inaccurate, incorrect beliefs lead to behavior that ultimately can be considered to be mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes can produce much pain, suffering, disability, and early death. It is so important for the members of our species to work toward ultimate agreement to that which is correct. We have a long way to go, but refusing to take any steps in that direction just holds us back.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I respect that - but I will say that the things we are talking about in this thread are not the same as other movements. It makes us look a little pitiful when we attempt to equate them.

No one has ever kept me from believing what I believe. I've never been denied services or turned away from an establishment for maintaining a worldview different from the norm. I've never had to sit in a different place, drink out of a different fountain, nor have I been rejected on a loan application because of my personal philosophies. I've never been taxed differently, turned away from hospital visitation, been relegated to certain areas of a restaurant, or had violent school yard games named after beating up my "kind" of people... I have in no way suffered any real tangible affects of this "discrimination" other than having my feelings hurt, and that's on me because people are dicks and I should expect that; we all should. (I'm going to imagine that this is true for 99% of the other atheists out there.)

So I do not equate popular ideas regarding atheism as a "lesser" ideology to in any way be equal to the civil rights movements of any era...

I've been discriminated against in the workplace for being an atheist. It centered around removing Bibles from my individual work space on my first day on the job. I did this for two reasons: They misrepresented me by sending a message that wasn't mine, and they would be a distraction if anybody picked one up and began reading it before I entered the room to see them. That would apply for any book, not just Bibles.

It was in a rural part of the American South, where I had just relocated to from California. The news of this spread like wildfire within, and it became a hostile environment for me.

The costs could have been quite a bit more significant had I not found a way to beat a non-compete clause in a contract.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

you are trying to group people into those who do something called "believing in God" or things similar to that from those who don't do so. And why you are doing that, i.e., what you are trying to accomplish, is to advocate for one of those groups (yours) over another or others. I understand that.

What I am doing is trying to distinguish between faith based systems of belief and reason and evidence based worldviews. They are different, and calling them both religions blurs that distinction. It's kind of like giving all your children the same name. Different people, places, ideas, objects, processes, attributes and relationships deserve distinct linguistic labels.

But my goal is something different. I am trying to help our species come together despite the differences that exist between some of its members, by virtue of overcoming those differences through rational discussion.

That goal is facilitated by recognizing and acknowledging the differences between the factions that you hope to unify, not by conflating them.

some advocate that religion should be stamped out, rather than helped to improve.

Advocating stamping out religion is a poor position to take for more than one reason. Personally, my interest is limited to seeing Christianity and Islam, the two highly politicized religions, become disempowered as institutions. I don't have a plan for Islam, and don't need one for Christianity. Christianity is waning in numbers and political clout in the West - even in America - with no outside help.

Thank you for a civil and constructive discussion.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I do not dislike or distrust atheists. I do believe they are wrong

Atheism is nothing more or less than a "No" answer to the question, "Do you believe in a god or gods?" How can that be wrong? I don't believe in gods, and therefore I am an atheist. That's a fact.