Mohsen
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
Yes!!
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dislike atheism
- Thread starter syo
- Start date
Yes!!
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
I see from your profile that you follow Islam. Here is a verse from quran.com:
Q'uran 4:3:
And if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry those that please you of [other] women, two or three or four. But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one or those your right hand possesses. That is more suitable that you may not incline [to injustice].
This verse both promotes the idea of inequality between men and women, as well as slavery. Since the Q'uran is objectively moral, it must mean that slavery and inequality between the genders are moral because they are sanctioned by Allah. You agree with this? Please feel free to point out if I'm wrong.
LionLooking
Member
I couldn't answer that question as I am not religious. What I said is that I am no longer an atheist - I'm more of an agnostic/pantheist
No, I do not. I expect you to believe that I always felt, due to lack of evidence, that there was no god. I then changed mt position slightly, from atheist to agnostic. Over the last 10 years or so, I have come to believe that there is 'something' else.
Not sure what your point here is. I couldn't care less what 'Fundamentalist Universities in the US' say. I don't lie - for Jesus (why would I, not being Christian?) or for anybody else.
That's up to you of course. Shame though - I have no need to lie.
Mohsen
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
You’re wrong!
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
Because?
Mohsen
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
You’re wrong!!! This should Make sense to an irrational rationalist
FlyingTeaPot
Irrational Rationalist. Educated Fool.
Can't say I'm surprised.You’re wrong!!! This should Make sense to an irrational rationalist
Mohsen
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
*turbo eyeroll
Bob the Unbeliever
Well-Known Member
What an interesting and delightful read, from page one to page 14. I've been away since last March for Reasons.
And I return to this thread, and was fascinated at the degree to which certain people use the "Is So" as an argumentative style. (looking at the OP, here, in case there was any doubt).
It took me back to my days in primary school, and arguments over who's father was the biggest and baddest dad in the city.
I was also very impressed with the patience of the detractors (to the OP) and how politely they pointed out again and again where the OP continued to say, essentially, "Is So!".
Of course, the thread lost focus towards the end, there.
There was an amusing Rabbit Trail, when a couple of "holey" texts were posted as "evidence".... naively failing to realize that the holy book is the claim, and cannot constitute proof? (circular reasoning logical fallacy)
I always find that funny, myself:
"Superman is Real"
"How do you know?"
"Because Superman says he is!"
And I return to this thread, and was fascinated at the degree to which certain people use the "Is So" as an argumentative style. (looking at the OP, here, in case there was any doubt).
It took me back to my days in primary school, and arguments over who's father was the biggest and baddest dad in the city.
I was also very impressed with the patience of the detractors (to the OP) and how politely they pointed out again and again where the OP continued to say, essentially, "Is So!".
Of course, the thread lost focus towards the end, there.
There was an amusing Rabbit Trail, when a couple of "holey" texts were posted as "evidence".... naively failing to realize that the holy book is the claim, and cannot constitute proof? (circular reasoning logical fallacy)
I always find that funny, myself:
"Superman is Real"
"How do you know?"
"Because Superman says he is!"
Poppa
Member
This is really cool, but SYO... i ask that you really take the time to think about my replies and just not reply off the cuff..
"atheists deny a creator god but they don't deny their own being. why"
Because one of us exists and the other is not able to be proven to exist. Perhaps if i could touch the face of god i might be convinced otherwise, but it's not very likely to happen.
"how do we exist then, if not for a creating power? "
There is power. it's undeniable. Our sun pours energy onto our planet everyday. I would suggest that it's almost impossible for life NOT to happen under the conditions of this planet. I would also suggest that it likely is a very common occurrence, to arise under these conditions. If there is one thing i have learned is that if you find something once, it is likely to happen over and over.
I will anticipate your answer... "but where does the power come from?" and my answer will be: Mankind has always attributed the unknown to a higher power. Gods cause the light to change to dark, the seasons to pass and fro lightning to strike the earth. Until we matured and discovered the truths behind the very natural effects of the world we live on. We have yet to unlock the secrets of the universe and beyond, but that does not mean we need to cower and call the unknown "god".
"atheists believe that only themselves exist, and the creation power is imaginary"
No. Power exists. it is plain to see all around us. creation happens. evolution happens. creation power is very real. just not god based.
"how atheism has followers is strange."
There are no Atheism "followers". Is is simply the interpretation of our world for each person who has come to that reality.
"we can't suggest that our short lifespan is all there is. there must be something greater than us that lasts forever."
Haven't you ever heard that matter can never be created nor destroyed, that it can only change states? The universe has always existed in one form or another. THIS universe that we live in is just another iteration of the energy that has always existed (and always will). it will end and begin anew. We just don't know the process yet. Does it involve multiple dimensions, or multiple universes and so on. much to learn!
"creator of existence is a strong reason why god exists. we didn't create ourselves."
No but it is clear the pattern of how life arises. We have created the same basic amino acids from primordial soup in the lab. those arose to form primitive life forms which grew more and more complex as mankind continues to. Do you know of anyone who has succumbed to the black plague lately? No, we have evolved to contain resistance to that disease and to be able to drink and digest milk. Ain't nature amazing?
"Stars die"
Yes, but they do not cease to exist.
"i believe we must accept reality that's why we must accept god. denying god is not accepting reality."
I would suggest that you need to define reality. The reality is that power exists. it falls on matter and transforms it into other forms. if you are real lucky, it starts to think.
"god lasts forever and he creates. that's all there is." ...and...
"i will give you the definition of god. god is an eternal, unchange, logical being that cause nature to exist. nature is ephemeral, it changes, and it's laws are god-sent."
I agree with all you say EXCEPT that god is a being. If you want to call natural laws "god" then feel free. but there is no being that somehow existed forever that controls stuff. But the natural laws do exist. We are learning and modifying what we know about them as we go.
"so you are the only intelligence in the universe? are you kidding?"
Not at all. Personally, i believe that life is common in the universe. Intelligent life even less so, but there are likely numerous species that exist or at one time that did exist. the concept though that there is one being out there that always existed, not having a beginning or end just seems to fly in the face of anything i have seen in my life. Now this is going to sound almost like contradicting myself, but the energy of the multiverses obviously exists and always has. We have proof. look at the ground you walk on. If it did not exist in some form elsewhere throughout time, then it would not exist now.
Peace
"atheists deny a creator god but they don't deny their own being. why"
Because one of us exists and the other is not able to be proven to exist. Perhaps if i could touch the face of god i might be convinced otherwise, but it's not very likely to happen.
"how do we exist then, if not for a creating power? "
There is power. it's undeniable. Our sun pours energy onto our planet everyday. I would suggest that it's almost impossible for life NOT to happen under the conditions of this planet. I would also suggest that it likely is a very common occurrence, to arise under these conditions. If there is one thing i have learned is that if you find something once, it is likely to happen over and over.
I will anticipate your answer... "but where does the power come from?" and my answer will be: Mankind has always attributed the unknown to a higher power. Gods cause the light to change to dark, the seasons to pass and fro lightning to strike the earth. Until we matured and discovered the truths behind the very natural effects of the world we live on. We have yet to unlock the secrets of the universe and beyond, but that does not mean we need to cower and call the unknown "god".
"atheists believe that only themselves exist, and the creation power is imaginary"
No. Power exists. it is plain to see all around us. creation happens. evolution happens. creation power is very real. just not god based.
"how atheism has followers is strange."
There are no Atheism "followers". Is is simply the interpretation of our world for each person who has come to that reality.
"we can't suggest that our short lifespan is all there is. there must be something greater than us that lasts forever."
Haven't you ever heard that matter can never be created nor destroyed, that it can only change states? The universe has always existed in one form or another. THIS universe that we live in is just another iteration of the energy that has always existed (and always will). it will end and begin anew. We just don't know the process yet. Does it involve multiple dimensions, or multiple universes and so on. much to learn!
"creator of existence is a strong reason why god exists. we didn't create ourselves."
No but it is clear the pattern of how life arises. We have created the same basic amino acids from primordial soup in the lab. those arose to form primitive life forms which grew more and more complex as mankind continues to. Do you know of anyone who has succumbed to the black plague lately? No, we have evolved to contain resistance to that disease and to be able to drink and digest milk. Ain't nature amazing?
"Stars die"
Yes, but they do not cease to exist.
"i believe we must accept reality that's why we must accept god. denying god is not accepting reality."
I would suggest that you need to define reality. The reality is that power exists. it falls on matter and transforms it into other forms. if you are real lucky, it starts to think.
"god lasts forever and he creates. that's all there is." ...and...
"i will give you the definition of god. god is an eternal, unchange, logical being that cause nature to exist. nature is ephemeral, it changes, and it's laws are god-sent."
I agree with all you say EXCEPT that god is a being. If you want to call natural laws "god" then feel free. but there is no being that somehow existed forever that controls stuff. But the natural laws do exist. We are learning and modifying what we know about them as we go.
"so you are the only intelligence in the universe? are you kidding?"
Not at all. Personally, i believe that life is common in the universe. Intelligent life even less so, but there are likely numerous species that exist or at one time that did exist. the concept though that there is one being out there that always existed, not having a beginning or end just seems to fly in the face of anything i have seen in my life. Now this is going to sound almost like contradicting myself, but the energy of the multiverses obviously exists and always has. We have proof. look at the ground you walk on. If it did not exist in some form elsewhere throughout time, then it would not exist now.
Peace
Attachments
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Why don't you ask individual atheists what they believe instead of creating straw men to knock over?
It is about belief or a lack of belief. If and when a god is demonstrated to exist, there will be no reason to deny that particular god. Until then, there is literally nothing to deny.
Sheldon
Veteran Member
I am an atheist and I don't deny anything, I merely don't believe in any deity or deities, and the last part of that quote is an argumentum ad ignorantiam fallacy.
Wrong again, atheism is not a belief, and you don't know what an atheist believes until they tell you, try asking them.
Atheism is not a belief or assertion so it cannot be wrong, as it makes no claims. Please demsonrate some objective evidence for your claim there is a creator power. Atheism doesn't have followers, you really ought to learn a little about atheism and atheists before making sweeping assertions.
Joshua Pryce
Member
Its true and you said it in simple terms and logically. I believe that creation points to a creator, the creator is God. Its hard to deny God looking at the things we see and have for free like love for example. Men have perverted Gods design and it hit like a ton of bricks. Love is made as an feeling, when its supposed to be mental. Love is emotional and impulsive by men, but God designed love to be a train of thought which is expressive based on relational insight.
lukethethird
unknown member
That's because I see evidence I exist, but not evidence for a creator God
I exist because I was born. As far as those before me, perhaps the ingredients required for existence has always existed; thus never created.
No, I recognize others around me that exist also. But creation power does sound like something imaginary
I find it strange you believe there is such a thing as a creator God without evidence.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It should be obvious that we atheists believe that there is more in existence beyond ourselves. It just happens that we don't believe that anything else that exists deserves to be called a god.
There are many reasons why we can arrive at such a conclusion, but I think that the most significant by far are intellectual honesty and aesthetical preference.
Ultimately, it is just odd to believe in a creator god. It is an arbitrary idea with little meaning, less support and even less explanatory power. Quite on the contrary, it tends to muddle waters and create confusion and misunderstandings.
Atheism is simply more reasonable overall. Less assumptions, less danger to ethical values, less confusion.