Dispensation Theology or Covanant (Replacement) Theology?

[tomarnold]

I have a strong opinion that Scripturally the evidence demonstrates that the church does not replace natural Israel. Let me lay out a some Scripture for ground work:

Romans 11:17-27

And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”​

So here we see that Paul clearly tells us that blindness has happened to Israel, UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Then, after that, ALL OF ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

I have a strong opinion that Scripturally the evidence demonstrates that the church is not the permanant bride of Christ. Let me lay out a some Scripture for ground work:

Romans 11:17-27

And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”​

So here we see that Paul clearly tells us that blindness has happened to Israel, UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Then, after that, ALL OF ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED.

Of course, were just being used to make Jewish people Jealous and just like every flaw plan this God makes it hasn't worked so well.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I have a strong opinion that Scripturally the evidence demonstrates that the church is not the permanant bride of Christ.

Keep thinking. Maybe something good will happen.

 

[tomarnold]

Of course, were just being used to make Jewish people Jealous and just like every flaw plan this God makes it hasn't worked so well.

Scripturally we see natural Israel back in play, and we can see the nations gathering together against them for the battle of Armegeddon, which has not been fulfilled yet and so it must still happen.

 

[tomarnold]

Keep thinking. Maybe something good will happen.

That wording wasn't adequate, but the Scriptures do point to God not forgetting His promises towards Israel and turning His attention back to them in these last days.

 

[Ben Masada]

I have a strong opinion that Scripturally the evidence demonstrates that the church does not replace natural Israel. Let me lay out a some Scripture for ground work:

Romans 11:17-27

And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”​

So here we see that Paul clearly tells us that blindness has happened to Israel, UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Then, after that, ALL OF ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED.

You are right that the Church does not replace Israel, but the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology is highly clear. Keep reading the following:

Replacement Theology

Replacement Theology is as old as Christianity itself, considering that the etimology of the expression acquired its real meaning with the rise of Christianity.

Some people object to the focusing on Christianity for the reason why Replacement Theology originated, because the Jewish People was not the only ancient people with the original claim to be God's chosen People.

It's true that a few other ancient peoples upheld the same claim, but there was never one to rise with the claim that a people had been replaced by another as God's chosen People.

Christianity became the first religious organization to rise with the claim that a change had occurred in the designs of God, which would define the rejection of the Jewish People, and resplacement with Christianity.

The classical NT document, which would give rise to this Christian policy is found in Galatians 4:21-31.

Paul would compare God's Covenant with the Jewish People as Hagar, who was Sara's slave girl, and the Jews as her son, who was rejected even to share with Isaac, the inheritance of Canaan. On the other hand, he compares Christianity to Sara and Christians to her son Isaac.

To conclude, Paul appeals to cast out the slave girl together with her son for the obvious reason that Israel, the Jewish People, would never be an heir with the son of the one born free.

That's the picture of Replacement Theology and not simply a people claiming Divine election. A group of Interfaith Scholars have classified Replacement Theology as a kind of Christian Antisemitism.

Ben

 

[tomarnold]

You are right that the Church does not replace Israel, but the Pauline policy of Replacement Theology is highly clear.

That depends on how you mean "replacement"- Paul never thought that God had done away with His promise to the natural Jews, he just knew that they would not as a whole accept Messiah and YH's redemption plan until the battle of Meggedo when they "look upon Him whom they pierced" as "all the nations of the earth are gathered against it (Israel)" (Zech 12:10/ 12:3). Paul knew the Scriptures well, and he knew what was unfulfilled and could get a glipse of what was "sealed up" until the time of the end (Dan 12:4).

To conclude, Paul appeals to cast out the slave girl together with her son for the obvious reason that Israel, the Jewish People, would never be an heir with the son of the one born free.

Paul didn't teach that the Jews "would never" be saved, he taught that "all of Israel shall be saved. (Romans 11:25-26)

That's the picture of Replacement Theology and not simply a people claiming Divine election. A group of Interfaith Scholars have classified Replacement Theology as a kind of Christian Antisemitism.

Ben

Antisemitism?

I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Does this appear to be a person teaching Jew hatred? How absurd!

I marvel at the Scripture that he could wish that he was himself accursed from Christ for the natural Jews. That is the profound, deep, and holy love of God.

Be blessed.

 

[tomarnold]

Any replacement ideology discounts so much Scripture, and now we can actually see the physical geographic presence of Israel, it is time for men to stop with this unscriptural nonsensicle jibberish!

 

[Civil Shephard]

Any replacement ideology discounts so much Scripture, and now we can actually see the physical geographic presence of Israel, it is time for men to stop with this unscriptural nonsensicle jibberish!

You know... I think 'disputable matters' a quite a waste of time especially where the letters of Paul are concerned. But I think your point is quite valid and necessary. So many come on my threads trying to say that Paul was preaching a different Gospel than Jesus. While I know this to be wrong I get lost trying to reconcile this for someone else because I simply know that Paul preaches the Gospel Jesus gave to him by forgiving him unspeakable sins and redeeming his life so that he could write plain answers to complicated issues.

Well done sir.

 

[Pegg]

So here we see that Paul clearly tells us that blindness has happened to Israel, UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. Then, after that, ALL OF ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED.

'Isreal' are all who put faith in Christ...it has nothing to do with being born into the Jewish race. When speaking to new gentile christians, Paul stated this fact:

Galatians 3:26 YOU are all, in fact, sons of God through YOUR faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of YOU who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus. 29 Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise

Abrahams 'seed' were known as 'Isreal' or 'Isrealites' by birth... but after the Messiah arrived and grafted the wild olive branches onto the olive tree, Isreal became all those with faith in Christ. They are not 'Isrealites' by birth, but by faith they become Abrahams children.

So all who prove themselves to be 'Isrealites' through faith, will be saved. That is what Paul means when he says 'all Isreal will be saved'

 

[tomarnold]

'Isreal' are all who put faith in Christ...it has nothing to do with being born into the Jewish race. When speaking to new gentile christians, Paul stated this fact:

Galatians 3:26 YOU are all, in fact, sons of God through YOUR faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of YOU who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus. 29 Moreover, if YOU belong to Christ, YOU are really Abraham’s seed, heirs with reference to a promise

Abrahams 'seed' were known as 'Isreal' or 'Isrealites' by birth... but after the Messiah arrived and grafted the wild olive branches onto the olive tree, Isreal became all those with faith in Christ. They are not 'Isrealites' by birth, but by faith they become Abrahams children.

So all who prove themselves to be 'Isrealites' through faith, will be saved. That is what Paul means when he says 'all Isreal will be saved'

Paul urged you to "not be deceived" about this "mystery", advice you have not headed as of yet.

Salvation through Christ will be brought to natural Israel according to Scripture.

In 2 Thess 2 we see Paul telling the church the last days could not come yet until the "son of perdition" declares himself to be god as he sits in the TEMPLE. Where is this temple going to be located? Well it will be rebuilt in Jerusalem of course (Dan 9:24-27/ Matt 24:15)

The battle of Armeggedon, which has never been fulfilled, is an event which the Bible teaches clearly. This event is going to happen in natural Israel of course, and will involve natural Israel, just as the Scriptures teach. The nations that are forming a coalition against Israel are also in the same geographical area that the Bible says they are. The nonsense watchtower lies to you. Please repent and believe in God and His Word for your own sake before its too late.

 

[Ben Masada]

Replacement Theology

Replacement Theology is as old as Christianity itself, considering that the etimology of the expression acquired its real meaning with the rise of Christianity.

Some people object to the focusing on Christianity for the reason why Replacement Theology originated, because the Jewish People was not the only ancient people with the original claim to be God's chosen People.

It's true that a few other ancient peoples upheld the same claim, but there was never one to rise with the claim that a people had been replaced by another as God's chosen People.

Christianity became the first religious organization to rise with the claim that a change had occurred in the designs of God, which would define the rejection of the Jewish People, and resplacement with Christianity.

The classical NT document, which would give rise to this Christian policy is found in Galatians 4:21-31.

Paul would compare God's Covenant with the Jewish People as Hagar, who was Sara's slave girl, and the Jews as her son, who was rejected even to share with Isaac, the inheritance of Canaan. On the other hand, he compares Christianity to Sara and Christians to her son Isaac.

To conclude, Paul appeals to cast out the slave girl together with her son for the obvious reason that Israel, the Jewish People, would never be an heir with the son of the one born free.

That's the picture of Replacement Theology and not simply a people claiming Divine election. A group of Interfaith Scholars have classified Replacement Theology as a kind of Antisemitism.

Ben