disturbing statistics from FFRF

[Quiddity]

Vic, I hope you realize I don't lump you in with sex offenders or catholic sex offenders in any way shape or form. I also have great confidence that if you came across such information about any clergyman you knew about, espcially as a devoted father, you would act on it rather than conceal it. I posted the links because you said the Vatican or higher-ups may not be aware of much of it. I found researchers who speculated on how much they knew, found it relevant to the topic and posted it.

What did the US Conference of Catholic Bishops doe after they addressed it? What was the end result of the address?

In short that it was taken out of context. I'll have to dig for the document.
I wasn't trying to imply that it couldn't go higher up. After all, Bishops are as high as you can go. My pope comment was only to point out that not all were involved, that's all.

 

[robtex]

In short that it was taken out of context. I'll have to dig for the document.
I wasn't trying to imply that it couldn't go higher up. After all, Bishops are as high as you can go. My pope comment was only to point out that not all were involved, that's all.

If I could isolate that last sentence Victor. "My pope comment was only to point out we are not all involved. " I would say yes and no. No, you and the other congregations members are not involved. Yes the church staff who are not partipants may be involved.

Let me give you a parallel. Say I worked at speedy photo shop. 5 locations here in Austin locally owned and operated. Now I manage one of them and go to manager meetings once a week drink with they guys on the weekends, and pal around with them on a weekly basis. I got this job becauses I have a passion for photography and so did the other managers. Over time I come to find out that there is a possiblity that Jay at location 3 may made and processed nude photos of children (this is just a hypothical), and Alex from # 2 may have helped. By coincidence Nick from # 4 is caught with photos of nude children, arrested and processed. The local authorities think it may be a ring inside Speedy Photo shop. They are attempting to build a case against Jay and Alex whom have at this point had children allege they were photographed by them. Jay calles me up telling me the what to say to them and the district manager has a meeting with the managers behind closed doors discussing how Speedy photo shop will handle this. The decision is to "handle it internally". I not actually have seen Jay or Alex up to no good and realizing my DM is asking me to be a team player do as I am told. In this hypothical, which I would find simiilar to clergy who "keep things internal", am I guilty of harboring possible crimminals?

 

[Quiddity]

If I could isolate that last sentence Victor. "My pope comment was only to point out we are not all involved. " I would say yes and no. No, you and the other congregations members are not involved. Yes the church staff who are not partipants may be involved.

Let me give you a parallel. Say I worked at speedy photo shop. 5 locations here in Austin locally owned and operated. Now I manage one of them and go to manager meetings once a week drink with they guys on the weekends, and pal around with them on a weekly basis. I got this job becauses I have a passion for photography and so did the other managers. Over time I come to find out that there is a possiblity that Jay at location 3 may made and processed nude photos of children (this is just a hypothical), and Alex from # 2 may have helped. By coincidence Nick from # 4 is caught with photos of nude children, arrested and processed. The local authorities think it may be a ring inside Speedy Photo shop. They are attempting to build a case against Jay and Alex whom have at this point had children allege they were photographed by them. Jay calles me up telling me the what to say to them and the district manager has a meeting with the managers behind closed doors discussing how Speedy photo shop will handle this. The decision is to "handle it internally". I not actually have seen Jay or Alex up to no good and realizing my DM is asking me to be a team player do as I am told. In this hypothical, which I would find simiilar to clergy who "keep things internal", am I guilty of harboring possible crimminals?

Absolutely. But I'm sure you are aware that on a larger scale it's more complex. Not only that but I'm not sure if you are aware that the Vatican doesn't micro manage like many people think they do. Every Bishop runs his own diocese. They fund themselves, start their own programs, etc. As long as it's abiding by Canon Law and Church teaching, he's free to run his own diocese as he see's fit. Point being that it can turn into a big mess real quick. Nonetheless I don't use that as an excuse but simply to point out the infinite possibilities in such a large institution. The Bishop can easily downplay the gravity of the problem (especially since the document is from the 1960's and the problem wasn't as clear) or the Cardinal saw a way to fix the problem in a field he needed to take advice from a psychologist. There is just tons of things that could have been important factors. But as I said, if a cardinal is shown to have clearly have known then he should be held responsible. I just don't think it was as clear as the media potrays it. I know first hand how easily people can misinterpret things.

 

[Quiddity]

That's not what I meant. Of course I'm not saying that all religious groups should be punished for the crimes of a few. I'm saying they should never have had tax-exempt status in the first place.

Who is they?

 

[SoliDeoGloria]

Should members of religious organizations be held to higher standards than the general public when it comes to child safetly and when pedophillies are found in the clergy that were hidden by the church should the church be held for civil liablities?

Ofcourse they should. Not only here, but if what the Bible states is true then they will surely pay dearly later on.

I spent quite a bit of time looking for anything about this.

I am curious as to why you are so intent on finding the shortcomings of those who attend or are even holding or held an authoritative possition in the church. Is this an attempt at drawing people away from the church by shinning a light on some of it's practitioners shortcomings? It really wouldn't be that hard to find a plethora of horrific things even done in "the name of god". I guess if I were one to base my relationship with God on what others who claim to have the same relationship did, this would be a valid argument. Then again if I based my marriage on how many marriages I know of that have gone extremely sour, including my parents, I would've never gotten married in the first place either.

In conclusion, while I see absolutely no problem with bringing such things to light and punishing those responsible, given your atheistic presupposition, your motivations for posting this thread are highly suspicious. Are you sincerely concerned with those who have suffered with such horrific tragedies or just smearing dirt on Christianity as a whole in an attmpt to draw upon human emotion and draw more people away from the church?

I have a younger brother who suffered such a tragedy and suffers from post traumatic chronic skitzophrenia because of it. He has attempted suicide numerous times and been civilly commited many times. It is a heartwrenching thing to watch someone go through and I wouldn't wish it on anybody, not excluding even those whom I consider my worst enemies. While there is a side of me that would love nothing more than to do some things I probaly shouldn't mention here to the person responsible for this who has spent some time incarcerated for continuing to do such things, I find bringing up this subject with suspicious intent to be sickening.

Sincerely,
SoliDeoGloria

 

[Saint George]

The Catholic Church should absolutely be held to a higher standard. These priests and protestant clergy should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for molesting children, IF FOUND GUILTY. But, you must keep in mind that these are isolated cases. These stories are reported as if there is widespread molesting going on by religious clergy, and that's just bull. Statistics on these cases clearly have shown that the abuses are less than 2% of the Catholic priests. Yet, the perception out there is that many or most priests are abusing children and that's why this topic is so full of fallacies. It's like saying that the US Presidents are taking advantage of interns because Bill Clinton had sex with one in the White House.

People who perpetuate these arguments about the abuses of the clergy are not interested in making things better. They only focus on the bad because they take great pleasure in exposing such things. Notice that these people and organizations who are trying to dig up dirt never credit the Catholic Church for any of the charitable and educational contributions that the Church is involved with. They only focus on the bad and that really exposes them for who they are - full of hate and anger.

We must also be careful not to prejudge anyone being accused of child molestation until they have been found guilty. Many abuses have taken place over the years and those responsible must be exposed and held accountable for their actions. But there are also many bogus accusations being made by unstable people who have never even met their accusers.