Divination - Not What You Think

[Quintessence]

Divination.

This term conjures up many thoughts and ideas. On the whole, it is a practice dismissed by many in my culture, though for different reasons. Much of the dismissive attitude emerges from various misconceptions about what divination is. As divination isn't something we learn about in public education, what people know about the art is limited to popular culture, hearsay, and stereotypes rather than proper study. There are a couple of common misconceptions about divination that are worth addressing:

Misconception #1: Divination is about predicting the future.
In fairness, divination can be and has been used for this purpose. Skeptics are often critical of divination because they equate it with fortune telling. However, the uses for divination are hardly confined to this purpose. What divination does on a psychological level is facilitate thought and reflection. It's a tool that helps us think about things, like chatting with a friend or researching something in a library. It helps us get in touch with our feelings and our thoughts; it helps us become aware of the stories we're telling ourselves or how we are approaching a situation. And by understanding all that, it can help us to reframe how we think about things to better reach our goals. Put another way, divination is an introspective tool and can get the gears of critical thinking churning to power positive changes in someone's life.

Misconception #2: Divination involves the supernatural.
As with the first misconception, a bit of fairness is in order here. To some people who practice divination, they believe there is something supernatural about it, or some supernatural power involved. However, at the end of the day, there are multiple models to explain how divination works, and only some of them invoke supernatural explanations. It comes down to what the person chooses to believe about it. And regardless of what the person chooses to believe about it, from an academic perspective, we can always approach divination through the lens of the social sciences. From that perspective, divination works because it takes advantage of our mental processes. In particular, works through our ability to detect patterns and create meaning from them... things like symbolic thought.
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Why am I posting all this? Well, for one, @LuisDantas called me out on it via PM a while back and I felt some obligation to make the thread. For two, I'm tired of detractors of divination mouthing off against it based on ill-informed ideas about what it is... and particularly when "skeptics" string together divination with things like alien abductions as if they are somehow equivalent. Lastly, I've practiced divination for years and hope it will be useful to someone to know a little more about it. Feel free to ask me any and all questions you might have about divination, as there are other misconceptions beyond just these two! Or, if you prefer, since I posted this in the debate section, demolish at will! Have you held to any of these misconceptions? Do you feel they are misconceptions? What have you been taught divination is? Do you practice?

 

[Sleeppy]

How do you practice?

 

[George-ananda]

Perhaps, you can start by telling us what 'divination' means to you. It is not a term people are really familiar with.

 

[Skwim]

How do you practice?

Yes.

When you're divining, Quintessence, exactly what are you doing?


.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I'm with the people above. If divination is not supernatural and has nothing (or, at least, little) to do with predicting the future, what exactly is divination and how is it distinct from everyday introspection?

 

[Erebus]

Have you held to any of these misconceptions? Do you feel they are misconceptions? What have you been taught divination is? Do you practice?

When I was a teenager, I thought divination was solely for predicting the future. I've since come to view it much the same way you posted here.

They are misconceptions to a degree. As you say, people do use it to try and predict the future. It's just that that's not divination's only use. I'd go as far as to say it's probably the least useful thing to try and use divination for.

I have a couple of tarot decks and some runestones. I did have a pendulum, but I don't know where that went. I've also attempted scrying with both a crystal ball and a bowl of water with a few drops of blood added. To be honest, I very rarely practice divination nowadays. It's only when I'm in a real jam and need something to clarify my own subconscious that I use it.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

For me, divination is generally like astrology: it depends on the nature of time. Every moment of time has its particular quality. A question arises in your mind at an appropriate moment and study of that moment will tell you a lot about the answer. Of course, this depends on the question being a genuine one — an idle question isn't likely to arise at the right moment — and the querent being sensitive to the character of moment.

Now a scientist may tell you that time has no qualities, but the principal of temporal uniformity is not a discovery of physics: it's an axiom you accept before you start. The physicist takes great care, by demanding replicability in experiments, to eliminate any possibility that time might be a factor.

Will divination predict the future? In a general sense, the future cannot be experienced because it doesn't exist until it comes. But if both engines of a two-engined plane fail halfway across the Atlantic the consequences are obvious. Sometimes we have painted ourselves into a corner and all that divination can do it show where we are. Usually, however, the correct question is not "what will happen?" but "what should I do now?".

Is divination about the supernatural? Ignoring the question of whether the concept of the supernatural is meaningful (I'd say it's not), I'll ask "Is divination a religious activity?" Strictly speaking, no. When I used horary astrology to ask whether I should accept a job offer, that wasn't anything to do with religion: I was just trying to find out whether this was a time for good or bad offers. On the other hand, when I consulted the Yi Jing after asking Asklepios to use it to answer a question, that obviously was religious. But was it divination? It was more like an oracle. Naturally, one cannot always be sure exactly what's going on. I might think I've done a divination when the answer has actually been provided by a helpful god.

What do I use? As you've seen, horary astrology or the Yi Jing, depending on the sort of problem. The first method is better at delivering an analysis of the situation, the second at suggesting a course of action.

In the past I've tried geomancy and the tarot, and neither worked for me. Of course, that doesn't mean that they won't work for others.

 

[Quintessence]

Perhaps, you can start by telling us what 'divination' means to you. It is not a term people are really familiar with.

There are different ways we could go about defining it, but the paragraph on misconception #1 gets at it most strongly, I think. The definition of divination I've used in my own Book of Shadows is "a method of gathering information by esoteric means." I'm not sure that conveys it well to others, though, since "esoteric" is kind of a mushy word. I suspect most people know what various methods of divination look like, though. I break forms of divination into four types that aren't mutually exclusive with each other. There are omens, or chance/natural occurrences that are interpreted as significant and meaningful (e.g., astrology, palmistry, divining by birds). Then there are oracles, which uses a medium with fixed symbols that are cast/drawn and then interpreted (e.g., tarot, runes). There are also scrying forms, where the medium is unfixed but interpretation is still based on emerging symbols (e.g., tasseomancy, ink blots, wax droppings). Then there is the odd category I just call otherworldly which includes "supernatural" things (e.g., dream interpretation, energy reading, necromancy). But what ties all those methods together is that they are media for conveying information, and then the information is interpreted.

How do you practice?

Yes.

When you're divining, Quintessence, exactly what are you doing?

Hopefully the above clarifies a bit with the brief discussion of the various forms. There are so many different forms, and exactly what I do depends on the form I'm using. I've worked with all four of those broad forms above, but most of the time I use some sort of oracular system when I sit down to practice. It might be the bag of runes, it might be a tarot deck or an oracle deck. Much of my practice tends to be free-flowing, so I'm not rigidly formal with how I go about it. I'll always spend at least a little bit of time focusing and relaxing, because if my head isn't clear, that's going to muddy the introspective waters, so to speak. I'll always spend time carefully composing the question, because that is a very important step. Once I draw something, I'll mull it over from different angles. If I need clarification, I'll draw another card or do another casting. Pretty simple. And more importantly, I find it useful and fun!

I'm with the people above. If divination is not supernatural and has nothing (or, at least, little) to do with predicting the future, what exactly is divination and how is it distinct from everyday introspection?

I suspect the response I made to George-anada clarifies that. The specific methods used make it different. Everyday introspection doesn't throw the bones, read the coffee grounds, mark the stars in the sky, etc. There's some sort of "esoteric" medium involved that serves as a reflection space.

 

[Sleeppy]

Serious question: What do you guys think about Ouija boards?

Also do you guys use any drugs in conjunction with practice?

 

[Quintessence]

When I was a teenager, I thought divination was solely for predicting the future. I've since come to view it much the same way you posted here.

They are misconceptions to a degree. As you say, people do use it to try and predict the future. It's just that that's not divination's only use. I'd go as far as to say it's probably the least useful thing to try and use divination for.

I think most of us were the same, because we learned about divination from popular culture and where divination is portrayed in popular culture, it's all about fortune telling. I'd agree that using it for fortune telling is among the least useful things to do with it... with a caveat, I think. So long as you are using fortune telling as a way of introspecting about your current situation and the possible impact your behaviors will have on the future, I think that's a plus. But this strikes me less as fortune telling that it does... well... just introspection. It's not a "this is what is going to happen in the future!" kind of thing.

I have a couple of tarot decks and some runestones. I did have a pendulum, but I don't know where that went. I've also attempted scrying with both a crystal ball and a bowl of water with a few drops of blood added. To be honest, I very rarely practice divination nowadays. It's only when I'm in a real jam and need something to clarify my own subconscious that I use it.

Scrying is a weird thing. It's harder to learn than oracular forms of divination for most folks, I think. Took me a while before I got it... realized I'd been approaching aspects of it the wrong way.

I don't practice divination a ton either, though I want to aspire to that. Drawing something at the beginning of the day as a piece of wisdom or inspiration has pretty clear benefits, yes?

 

[Quintessence]

Usually, however, the correct question is not "what will happen?" but "what should I do now?".

Exactly!

I'm the sort of person who sometimes gets paralyzed by over-analysis (as some of you guys already know). Divination helps force me through the decision-making process. This is going to sound really pathetic, but the most common divination I do is throwing percentile dice for trivial daily decisions. You know, percentile dice from tabletop RPGs? I'll ask a question like "eeh... should I go home for lunch today?" and then decide based on the roll. Doing this has seriously helped me learn how to be more spontaneous in my life, though. *laughs*

Is divination about the supernatural? Ignoring the question of whether the concept of the supernatural is meaningful (I'd say it's not), I'll ask "Is divination a religious activity?" Strictly speaking, no. When I used horary astrology to ask whether I should accept a job offer, that wasn't anything to do with religion: I was just trying to find out whether this was a time for good or bad offers. On the other hand, when I consulted the Yi Jing after asking Asklepios to use it to answer a question, that obviously was religious. But was it divination? It was more like an oracle. Naturally, one cannot always be sure exactly what's going on. I might think I've done a divination when the answer has actually been provided by a helpful god.

That's an interesting perspective. For me, I inevitably feel it's a religious activity, but perhaps that phrase means something different for me than it does to you.

My astrology is a bit rusty... can you remind me what horary astrology is?

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Serious question: What do you guys think about Ouija boards?

Also do you guys use any drugs in conjunction with practice?

1) I don't use them; did once when I was a pre-teen, didn't have any problems with it, and found out the name of my first wife about 8 years before I met her.
2) No, I don't advocate the use of mind-altering drugs, especially without the attendance/supervision of someone who is experienced in their use. Learned my lesson the hard way.

 

[ThirtyThree]

I think most of us were the same, because we learned about divination from popular culture and where divination is portrayed in popular culture, it's all about fortune telling. I'd agree that using it for fortune telling is among the least useful things to do with it... with a caveat, I think. So long as you are using fortune telling as a way of introspecting about your current situation and the possible impact your behaviors will have on the future, I think that's a plus. But this strikes me less as fortune telling that it does... well... just introspection. It's not a "this is what is going to happen in the future!" kind of thing.



Scrying is a weird thing. It's harder to learn than oracular forms of divination for most folks, I think. Took me a while before I got it... realized I'd been approaching aspects of it the wrong way.

I don't practice divination a ton either, though I want to aspire to that. Drawing something at the beginning of the day as a piece of wisdom or inspiration has pretty clear benefits, yes?

Can you explain scrying in depth, as far as methods and how images are supposed to appear? Does one see things in the water or black mirror, literally? I have attempted the art and have had zero success, if seeing images is supposed to be the result.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

For me, divination is generally like astrology: it depends on the nature of time. Every moment of time has its particular quality. A question arises in your mind at an appropriate moment and study of that moment will tell you a lot about the answer. Of course, this depends on the question being a genuine one — an idle question isn't likely to arise at the right moment — and the querent being sensitive to the character of moment.

Now a scientist may tell you that time has no qualities, but the principal of temporal uniformity is not a discovery of physics: it's an axiom you accept before you start. The physicist takes great care, by demanding replicability in experiments, to eliminate any possibility that time might be a factor.

Will divination predict the future? In a general sense, the future cannot be experienced because it doesn't exist until it comes. But if both engines of a two-engined plane fail halfway across the Atlantic the consequences are obvious. Sometimes we have painted ourselves into a corner and all that divination can do it show where we are. Usually, however, the correct question is not "what will happen?" but "what should I do now?".

Is divination about the supernatural? Ignoring the question of whether the concept of the supernatural is meaningful (I'd say it's not), I'll ask "Is divination a religious activity?" Strictly speaking, no. When I used horary astrology to ask whether I should accept a job offer, that wasn't anything to do with religion: I was just trying to find out whether this was a time for good or bad offers. On the other hand, when I consulted the Yi Jing after asking Asklepios to use it to answer a question, that obviously was religious. But was it divination? It was more like an oracle. Naturally, one cannot always be sure exactly what's going on. I might think I've done a divination when the answer has actually been provided by a helpful god.

What do I use? As you've seen, horary astrology or the Yi Jing, depending on the sort of problem. The first method is better at delivering an analysis of the situation, the second at suggesting a course of action.

In the past I've tried geomancy and the tarot, and neither worked for me. Of course, that doesn't mean that they won't work for others.

As an animist, and a person who has been studying other animisms, divination is a practical, this-world-oriented activity--asking the universe for luck/support in the lotto, love, profession, health, children, hunting, farming, and so on. Divination helps provide guidance to the individual who engages in it to do the things that will result in positive outcomes in the here and now, and to a degree, in the future.

 

[Quintessence]

Serious question: What do you guys think about Ouija boards?

*Quintessence twitches and grimaces*
Most of what I have to say about those boards is... not positive. This is in no small part because for me to personally use one would be like... oh, what's a good metaphor? It would be like me deciding to walk into work using crutches in spite of being perfectly ambulatory. An unnecessary hinderance. It's probably better for me not to rant on that.

Also do you guys use any drugs in conjunction with practice?

I don't do drugs, period, but given the forum rules, we can't really discuss that here anyway.

 

[Quintessence]

Can you explain scrying in depth, as far as methods and how images are supposed to appear? Does one see things in the water or black mirror, literally? I have attempted the art and have had zero success, if seeing images is supposed to be the result.

Watch this. No, really. I watched this, then proceeded to facepalm, and wondered why the hell this isn't the standard instruction. This is how everybody should be taught how to scry. It will work, and it will work for anyone and everyone. Well, provided you can learn to see those "magic eye" images. If you can't, then you might be out of luck. I scry in pavement. Popcorn ceilings Walls. Trees. Anything that has a grainy pattern where stuff will pop out at me if I go a little cross-eyed.

 

[Erebus]

I think most of us were the same, because we learned about divination from popular culture and where divination is portrayed in popular culture, it's all about fortune telling. I'd agree that using it for fortune telling is among the least useful things to do with it... with a caveat, I think. So long as you are using fortune telling as a way of introspecting about your current situation and the possible impact your behaviors will have on the future, I think that's a plus. But this strikes me less as fortune telling that it does... well... just introspection. It's not a "this is what is going to happen in the future!" kind of thing.

Scrying is a weird thing. It's harder to learn than oracular forms of divination for most folks, I think. Took me a while before I got it... realized I'd been approaching aspects of it the wrong way.

I don't practice divination a ton either, though I want to aspire to that. Drawing something at the beginning of the day as a piece of wisdom or inspiration has pretty clear benefits, yes?

Yes, I should probably clarify that to me, predicting the future is more along the lines of "I will meet somebody from my childhood tomorrow regardless of what I do" and less "If I do this, the knock on effect could lead to this happening."

Scrying is certainly ... interesting. I find that I either flat out can't do it, or I get far too absorbed into it. Either way, it's fairly low on my list of preferred divination methods.

Certainly does. Both runestones and tarot are ideal for that.

I actually do less ritual and spellwork of any kind these days. I just recently finished a master's degree, so for the last few years I haven't been in the right frame of mind very often. I'm trying to do more now I've finished though. I performed a banishing ritual the other week that seems to have been fairly successful. Just need to get my mojo back

 

[Quintessence]

I actually do less ritual and spellwork of any kind these days. I just recently finished a master's degree, so for the last few years I haven't been in the right frame of mind very often. I'm trying to do more now I've finished though.

As someone who has been there and done that, you have my sympathies. Or should it be condolences?

 

[Erebus]

Serious question: What do you guys think about Ouija boards?

Also do you guys use any drugs in conjunction with practice?

I don't use one. Too clunky for me personally. That said, I'm an advocate of people using whatever works for them. If that happens to be a ouija board, then fair enough.

I don't take any drugs. I will occasionally have wine or beer as part of a ritual. I don't with divination though and I don't have enough to get me very drunk.

 

[Erebus]

As someone who has been there and done that, you have my sympathies. Or should it be condolences?

Haha! Both seem appropriate.